RE: [Uri-review] Fwd: Re: Informational RFC to be: draft-paskin-doi-uri-03.txt (updated from -02.txt)

"Larry Masinter" <LMM@acm.org> Tue, 20 May 2003 16:02 UTC

Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19353 for <uri-review-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:02:39 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4KFWAA11204 for uri-review-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 11:32:10 -0400
Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KFWAB11201 for <uri-review-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org>; Tue, 20 May 2003 11:32:10 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19323 for <uri-review-web-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:02:08 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I9an-0006Qv-00 for uri-review-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:03:57 -0400
Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I9an-0006Qs-00 for uri-review-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:03:57 -0400
Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KFW1B11189; Tue, 20 May 2003 11:32:01 -0400
Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4KFVKB11110 for <uri-review@optimus.ietf.org>; Tue, 20 May 2003 11:31:20 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19262 for <uri-review@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:01:19 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I9a0-0006Pw-00 for uri-review@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:03:08 -0400
Received: from smtp-relay-3.adobe.com ([192.150.22.10] helo=smtp-relay-3.sea.adobe.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19I9Zz-0006PN-00 for uri-review@ietf.org; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:03:07 -0400
Received: from inner-relay-1.corp.adobe.com (inner-relay-1 [153.32.1.51]) by smtp-relay-3.sea.adobe.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4KG3chq022355 for <uri-review@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:03:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com (mailsj-dev.corp.adobe.com [153.32.1.192]) by inner-relay-1.corp.adobe.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4KG3cht011122 for <uri-review@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MASINTERPAD ([153.32.66.183]) by mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 v1 Jul 11 2001 16:32:57) with ESMTP id HF70M100.VQD; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:03:37 -0700
From: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>
To: 'Tim Kindberg' <timothy@hpl.hp.com>, "'Hammond, Tony (ELSLON)'" <T.Hammond@elsevier.com>
Cc: hardie@qualcomm.com, uri-review@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Uri-review] Fwd: Re: Informational RFC to be: draft-paskin-doi-uri-03.txt (updated from -02.txt)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:03:38 -0700
Message-ID: <000601c31ee9$6047b030$b7422099@MASINTERPAD>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.1.20030520013400.02057e60@hplex1.hpl.hp.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: uri-review-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: uri-review-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: uri-review@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review>, <mailto:uri-review-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes <uri-review.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:uri-review@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:uri-review-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review>, <mailto:uri-review-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I disagree with your characterization of my position;
I think that URI schemes should be "well defined".

Let me try to bring this back to first principles:

No one needs the IETF to publish a document any more.
Anyone can take a specification, publish it on their
web site, take out an ad in the New York Times or the
CACM, and get everyone else in the world to implement
their specification. Having something in funny RFC
ASCII instead of a nice easy-to-read format doesn't
help, really.

So what's the point of the IETF publishing anything?
The publication by the IETF must signify some kind
of review, that the document meets some kind of standard?
What is that standard? Well, RFC 2026 is a little fuzzy,
but in general, IETF publications are expected to
meet some kind of engineering (the E in IETF) review.

I think that includes the possibility that anyone
in the world can read an RFC, following the references,
if necessary, and figure out how to implement (E again)
the protocol (this is the "Internet" ETF after all)
specified in the document.  And the implementation
is expected, to some level, to be reasonably easy
to interpret, that the technology to implement it
is well-known, readily-available.

These are hard qualities to come up with an absolute
measure of, so we're left to 'engineering judgment',
and 'rough consensus' of engineering judgment at
that. We ask a bunch of engineers who don't have
a vested interest in the document to judge whether
it meets the fuzzy criteria.

This mailing list "uri-review" was set up to run
those kinds of reviews. And I volunteer my time
(since it doesn't have much of anything to do with
my day job) to give my opinion.

So, there you have it. If your management asked you
"hey, go implement this 'doi' scheme!", could you
do it? With the information in, or referenced by,
draft-paskin-doi-uri-03.txt?

Is it clear what it means? Or how you would go about
getting a DOI if you needed one? Or figuring out
what one pointed to if you got one?

I'd appreciate your engineering review of
draft-paskin-doi-uri-03.txt against general
IETF principles.

Larry
-- 
http://larry.masinter.net

_______________________________________________
Uri-review mailing list
Uri-review@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review