RE: [Uri-review] Fwd: Re: Informational RFC to be: draft-paskin-d oi-uri-03.txt (updated from -02.txt)

["Hammond, Tony (ELSLON)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Larry:

Thanks for the feedback on the "doi" URI Internet-Draft. You've raised some
useful points which we hope to have answered below.

Tony & Eamonn


Tony Hammond

Advanced Technology Group, Elsevier Ltd
32 Jamestown Road, London, NW1 7BY, UK

<tel:[phone]>
<mailto:[e-mail]>




#1 - Why not URN? To answer that point we note this passage in RFC 2396

	"Although many URL schemes are named after protocols, this does not
   imply that the only way to access the URL's resource is via the named
   protocol."

Is it now to be suggested that new candidate URI schemes must be tightly
bound to an Internet protocol?

We also note that the functional requirements for URNs (RFC 1737) do not
coincide with those of DOI, e.g. URN encoding. Furthermore, URN syntax
places additional restrictive syntactic constraints on "doi" URIs.

We view registered URI schemes such as "tel", "fax", etc as being valid and
see a useful precedent for a loose binding of URI scheme to Internet
protocol such as exhibited by DOI.


#2 - Section 7. Good point - the word "service" is used throughout the draft
in two different contexts - both for the DOI resolution mechanism, and for
DOI services accessible on dereference of a "doi" URI. We propose the
following change of "resolution service" to "resolution mechanism":

	"Resolution of a DOI is accomplished through an appropriate 
   resolution mechanism using a network protocol specific to that 
   mechanism."

There is intentionally no mention of the DOI resolution mechanisms, which
should be regarded as out-of-band services that are known to users of the
"doi" URI scheme, in the same fashion that users of the "tel" URI scheme
know how to dereference those URIs. (Note that additional out-of-band
knowledge also may be required to dereference a "tel" URI - e.g. if the user
is connected to a PBX and requires an external line.)


#3 - IDF. It wasn't clear to us that further details might be required for
an administrative authority - e.g. many URI schemes build upon the DNS
system and presume a knowledge of the DNS adminitrative authority. We could
revise the definition of the IDF to include some of the following text, e.g.
something along the lines of:

	"The International DOI Foundation, Inc. is a non-stock membership
   corporation organized in 1997 and existing under and by virtue of the
   General Corporation Law of the State of Delaware, USA. The Foundation
   is controlled by a Board elected by the members of the Foundation.
   The Corporation is a "not-for-profit" organization, i.e. prohibited
   from activities not permitted to be carried on by a corporation exempt
   from US federal income tax under Section 501(c)(6) of the Internal
   Revenue Code of 1986 et seq.

   The activities of the Foundation are controlled by its members,
   operating under a legal Charter and formal By-laws. Membership is open
   to all organizations with an interest in electronic publishing, content
   distribution, rights management, and related enabling technologies."

Current members of the IDF are listed below for reference. The list could be
included as an informative annex to the I-D.


#4 - Google. It should be pointed out that Google is primarily a harvester
of documents referenced by "http" URI. Further, and more importantly only
open sites are typically crawlable by robots. Subscription sites offering
high value content are generally not indexable through search engines like
Google.

To support the contention that DOI is a well-established identifier in an
active and deployed system the I-D referenced the DOI website for further
information. As a simple indication of current usage, however, you might
like to review last month's newsletter from CrossRef - a leading DOI
Registration Agent:

	http://www.crossref.org/01company/10newsletter.html#eodiu

	"Total Records in System: 7,458,490 (6,644,724 in January)"


#5 - Fee-based. Financial mechanisms are in place to support the DOI
directory services (registration and resolution), although no particular
business models are imposed upon DOI Registration Agencies. It is incorrect
to refer to DOI as being a fee-based system for the DOI Prefix Holders (i.e.
those enitities who can mint DOI identifiers) since this is not a
requirement of operating a Registration Agency. Further, a "doi" URI is free
at point of use (citation, dereference) by end users.


#6 - Patent/Trademark. First it should be pointed out that there is no
patent issued for DOI. Second, the intention in registering a trademark was
purely to secure the integrity of the DOI system. This matter, however,
would be best addressed by the IDF.


=====

Current members of the IDF (May 2003)

   CHARTER MEMBERS 

   Association of American Publishers
   British Library
   Elsevier
   International Publishers Association
   John Wiley & Sons
   McGraw-Hill, Educational and Professional Publishing Group
   Springer Verlag

   GENERAL MEMBERS 

   Association for Computing Machinery 
   Associazione Italiana Editori  
   Cambridge University Press 
   Copyright Clearance Center 
   Die Deutsche Bibliothek
   EDP Sciences 
   Hewlett-Packard Company 
   IEEE 
   International Federation of Reproduction Rights Organisations (IFRRO) 
   Joint Information Systems Committee (JISC)(UK) 
   Knowledge Solutions LLC 
   Koninklijke Bibliotheek 
   Microsoft Corporation 
   New England Journal of Medicine 
   Nielsen BookData 
   OCLC Online Computer Library Center Inc. 
   The Open University 
   Publishers Licensing Society 
   STM International Association 
   Wolters Kluwer International Health & Science  





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Masinter [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: 14 May 2003 17:55
> To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [Uri-review] Fwd: Re: Informational RFC to be:
> draft-paskin-doi-uri-03.txt (updated from -02.txt)
> 
> 
> I cannot find a functional difference between the spelling
> "permanent identifiers" with a D, O and I rather than
> a U, R and N. It seems to me that both have the same
> intrinsic difficulties. If the DOI consortium wants to
> resolve identifiers, it could as easily resolve those
> that start with "urn" as those that start with "doi",
> couldn't it? Or at least those that start with "urn:doi"?
> 
> >* DOI administration and resolution (sections 6, 7)
> 
> But the document's statement in section 7 is vacuous. It says:
> 
>   "Resolution of a DOI is accomplished through an appropriate 
>   resolution service using a network protocol specific to that 
>   service."
> 
> I can't figure out what this means; it isn't to contrast
> the method with resolution through an inappropriate resolution
> service, or using a network protocol which isn't appropriate
> for the service? But there's no actual definition for how
> resolution takes place.
> 
> Nor does it actually say how administration works. It makes
> reference to the "International DOI Foundation", without
> any reference to the terms of incorporation of this
> organization (if it is?) or its provenance. For all
> I know, the "International DOI Foundation" is Norm in
> his garage. Should we assign a URI namespace for everyone
> who asks for one?
> 
> Section 8.1 attempts to address "demonstrated utility",
> and claims there are "10 million examples in current
> use on the Internet". How was this number measured?
> (A google search on 'doi' shows 1 million hits, but
> most of those are about Doi-san (Japanese name) or
> the Department of Industry or Directorate of
> Information.
> 
> I wouldn't mind so much if the document were up-front about
> this being a naming service for a for-fee service
> for name registration, whether or not it is "non-profit".
> It's the same business model as the for-fee domain name
> business, or, for that matter, RealNames.
> 
> 
> Since "DOI and DOI.ORG are registered in the U.S. Patent
> and Trademark Office" (according to
>  http://www.doi.org/registration_agencies.html), shouldn't
> there be an additional intellectual property statement?
> 
> If someone were to use a 'doi' URI without the permission
> of the trademark/patent holder, would they be subject
> to any intellectual property constraints?
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
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