Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs

Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> Fri, 28 June 2019 21:35 UTC

Return-Path: <stpeter@stpeter.im>
X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99731202BD for <urn@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:35:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=stpeter.im header.b=kn/f+4L8; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=1fyj1Y6D
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S8zuMCcecLgV for <urn@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F6EC120110 for <urn@ietf.org>; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE1F21F5A; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:35:24 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:35:24 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stpeter.im; h= subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=h QzZ4+eXOFKzzhRkAfU4qCXebzM2WFzRCFLHxmwWHZw=; b=kn/f+4L8+LIg6+7AU TWkITM1RbhMd2aR1vC/CPl2fNddrQS2r8cU8IZknH4OFkH4sC/YpqsUGzKP51fnB 9K+KyxRKCU9wmJxqvKuf0ArEv7Im9M1+HUBm6L32PIXqjUPng8orhAB+vH2vT96t KyPY8/zV7MBJwii/+6OT5mPI0I68mRficwMxWbgrIMUX42J3u3hDYF90OYtutcGl kqvLn5oE29QNjjMA38hCRjYg/PuVOyY7ENqsCa9kx5Txt+vLYDqCuwkCvDcfDcwp PhHbX4hDBbJGwl5DrulJDdYi/LIZcn5GWbISfEjPPmTu6xv2wwFf0XoRv2xHgBAf maiBQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=hQzZ4+eXOFKzzhRkAfU4qCXebzM2WFzRCFLHxmwWH Zw=; b=1fyj1Y6Db8uT4vlurNpYpkWGKFUquSjzaR3VIqBPtPlI0DsjY6md6BGK/ fAziMqbu9sIf6Cnsq260+sQ8fPcpYu+dJcCrEMvbeLaiwPT+J9NtbP8oPCvHqeva qWKu4EQNOZo4oOmTwQ3BhkCwUPEXYQXN1RZTQQW7vaq4BSiZXshrZOxTTeptnf4g zdlMicA3lyZytWgff5++3T88tAihyD0zFDgScBEvY5rOsmC7R3vAuTtkzZDTCijh tPkDMsg7chqIk9k+tyNYFWyMrSxjsTBHirFkA0I1NnA34UoXz2Dzg+O6skyEWNjd 2DzkI0vfVTNw5la2fCclD/sdJfsaw==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:G4gWXTQEY0RgQmsiXqr1m3UT0er-P0cA8nNJDo1p-fbS9Cp2yhgFJQ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddrvddtgdduieegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepuffvfhfhkffffgggjggtgfesthekredttdefjeenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgv rhcuufgrihhnthdqtehnughrvgcuoehsthhpvghtvghrsehsthhpvghtvghrrdhimheqne cuffhomhgrihhnpegtihhtvgdqrghrtghhihhtvggtthhurhgvrdhorhhgnecukfhppeej iedrvdehrdefrdduhedvnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehsthhpvghtvghrse hsthhpvghtvghrrdhimhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:G4gWXZuUXQZr_4GUMpiljT-0qM7qHtkt_F9cSJHV8rUEsr5MpfzDUQ> <xmx:G4gWXQ-bQ8yQZ9V354yr2qVNvl061s7nI8bwA87tWP79WBeP8RsmVA> <xmx:G4gWXTf1pfOVeRa03UFkD9UX1ggBp3MrWpkoPcHtxy0f6ciLcpVf8g> <xmx:HIgWXb1NSq88Ek2K1Fx9yeZmpOSY8FlHPx_ckMYa7ZVIBBdVUItLXA>
Received: from aither.local (unknown [76.25.3.152]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EFC9380059; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
To: "Dale R. Worley" <worley@ariadne.com>
Cc: urn@ietf.org, "Smith, Neel" <nsmith@holycross.edu>, "cwblackwell@gmail.com" <cwblackwell@gmail.com>
References: <87bm2ncp8s.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=stpeter@stpeter.im; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFETDzsBEAC0FOv1N3ZJzIIxN6cKD475KVS9CHDPeYpegcOIPnL5eY1DCHeh/IwS1S7R CePtmiybNoV9FsI4PKUknzXQxA6LVEdAR/LUlhgJKjq+gsgp8lqbEILhg13ecH66HwLS9rar bQkC47T7kL8miIPBFC6E3A4Lq1L+eueO6UcLhKgoYkMxOjdiWrMgKTnVpch5ydLkPm/z0Zo8 zRgqlPuTLeCrXXZYnjHXLVFN2xy04UzOs7P5u5KVfx5Z7uQisr8pXtyLd6SpTZo6SHgKBv15 uz0rqXhsJojiGtOXfWznAjaS5FUOORq9CklG5cMOUAT8TNftv0ktsxaWDL1ELDVQPy1m7mtz o+VREG+0xmU6AjMo/GHblW1UU7MI9yCiuMLsp/HLrFuiosqLVZ85wuLQ2junPe3tK8h15Ucx IXAcpQ1VqIaDQFbeuLOXJTF8YHpHdpHYt/ZM1ll7ZBKGAo8yd7uF7wJ9D3gUazwdz9fFjWV7 oIk7ATwOlFllzmWDn+M2ygbHOGUGMX5hSaa8eDSieiR2QoLdn27Fip7kMBTJ2+GISrfnJTN/ OQvmj0DXXAdxHmu2C4QgmZbkge35n129yzXn9NcqzrGLroV62lL3LgX6cSbiH5i7GgWY6CAP b1pMogV0K475n9FvOSDRiG4QSO5yqKiA3OP5aKrIRp2TNAk4IwARAQABtCZQZXRlciBTYWlu dC1BbmRyZSA8c3RwZXRlckBzdHBldGVyLmltPokCOQQTAQIAIwUCURMPOwIbAwcLCQgHAwIB BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEOoGpJErxa2p6bgQAKpxu07cMDOLc4+EG8H19NWXIVVy bOEvfGuHYZaLKkPrhrMZwJiOwBpyISNRt9qzX1eLCVaojaoEVX6kD8MGc5zKFfiJZy3j7lBW l+Ybr7FfXYy2BbAXKx49e1n6ci9LmBrmVfAEaxtDNPITZ9N9oUAb9vS0nrG036EwteEHAveQ vlDjO7lhz6+Cv7lZQgBj9rZ6khfcQ4S3nSCQaKLQ9Iav4fqxI7SfuPKnx6quHX3JNLGnVo3w l+j/foCK0iTrmtHxCI3kc/bx6g32pRjHEPX0ALMBhmzU2uca+TE0zCEC96mgYXAUCwdnCFWy beIEbt6pz65iML13kAVAq0H/GqncnMGN0MbOatnw1Tdz/vkLojIy7QbPcQ0plUFxv5491xPf IrHhOWdRXp6WUt88fcqhT6MHZpVRtusj2ornKVVn+Y0GLsMMCTcrXJRG7Ao1YV72t/pJpzfG WSaaxolxDIZ6B+76jrIhUhiWgo/4nf+DN6BIlCZQ6j6xxjjx462cu02kuhIILTk2pzaMOufT BWx0uJhZk/KP2Fay/41pX7pvVOwRC4uIlKsLnJKLPS7EDa4BUUxENfd/9LqOGwlII8BbSe98 PLMI8sXkcigc3UXMVda9ll0YhQa+lbP1NaszmnBhwuiCsgnPGbImsJuRzgEEgckwP/dNeyr6 MlFMyfaeuQINBFETDzsBEADBzOsEHpUmhkRUjH9Tek87dn5P/Yh/L/HptgCGk40TL/C+kYdk d3HyteMEf061PNmsS/Rq8k37Fu3VODYb9SPYKxtgksKSYUtIkPKvao09K9QNWPqyWuNf0F+i AjVMUudaEVFJ7bHF310RDwLY5IvLeCXxtvG+Vv/i+g77d2WdPDp+zLJ8306C4yBKjSJV8xW0 cn2fd7NviIEN6cNHTsZNDZVMlgYPrxnwSq8GTEPGC7HsLIwGcx3hIe9QjnPw9CpAmQENpDEy WcxgF5uwo2NJECoDswKz1Nb0gfawF3ZIbD+GcLujTu94iJuVg25jATWm9wTgcfZo4UPllRGX dIb8uWwUFQlLQgd4ROLZZtXNGmHIymJrV2crx53gxup+1j0XqhlzKg8xbImWhEfS9oHZkRK8 VHgmWSIt7TNwNir6N5j3lqwWVBhnu6GzF01sKGNySlqNRbd0fqhakCkK71b8ot8tYTcYG5Lg 10z6HTbgQx2UwLthUjqbblDQ+GLmrOhiWklLXRsnlnPMwnEyFePAnsT5tasy2Cn9qjpttNDa h7PB8iFUi9mtTF/XDVgpFaB5G3CDV7Q2NgbAI6g6QhLIAmXzSP635G83mda0TKXHQXHDyLJT Tn+WVFU7t4m4uLt+0DsWU8jXHQWyUTNG9WPUrXhusDUAPHxFCQ/n/lQVBwARAQABiQIfBBgB AgAJBQJREw87AhsMAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pqfgP/ApN+TRu2bBIgaw1dr3AznSSha84DIpXUDh3 udZvQrGbUtz8/mA+e3iZEN/cmmBw2LGlAuQoJNILTZQ318yTP+E5QU7fJH7FVsohUyvrMfyt 3IMA9jg0Z9MuloLezvIjjMfFeNa0ROgDb/ubOT7JQzi1kwN8Lu3lO80HwqBHXEeOLoislUSn ZajRKvITbKWkZ6PHRjlMw1Wk4oIi6VLHgGgj79zzL3uhML2663m7imShvz1QcHTwvyR5i8cZ bNOEkotZyERiA1p7YHuruS+QvTi3ZPoQbnMUB3a7py9d11bw1+w3LiAUGZE/z5hBWOFxYtw+ w/U/Vx0BwJGYlwU3M2W20uEXe+qxz7wnakygKjmLiD2z4njfKjcNCiV3FmXrpmWgADln1c4j fxDh0NrndrsM8FPDf1TMPtOZgFDkKripc9xkZ/25P6xn27oTOHWKcAC0QhxSH+HuVBBRk8Ag F+zAbDZe4/L6+kanSrycIXW+wCzwBq61aWsz2QhhuKjozVkhk4dRG+CfjzAFjnyxwYERn3uX VKQAwTwcdNcTI9RV98IsNrw9Y4lJEAg6CjNPmiD5+EASycqaOuToRSGukr8sOQLWLPyTnez/ aG8Xf7a+fntWzK2HuDYoSDhJJrylWw/lMklOBm4wtMeNA0zcQH6AQV/GzQVQkSGqrLuMVIV/
Message-ID: <807bf523-ee1b-0a0b-6526-15223d0faec0@stpeter.im>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:35:22 -0600
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <87bm2ncp8s.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/urn/OrsAJCfwekXrBRZ1om17VLM1Gmw>
Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs
X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs <urn.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/urn>, <mailto:urn-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/urn/>
List-Post: <mailto:urn@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:urn-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn>, <mailto:urn-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 21:35:29 -0000

My apologies for the delayed reply.

On 3/6/19 8:55 PM, Dale R. Worley wrote:
> Comments on these registrations:
> 
> As Julian points out, using '#' as part of the URN assigned-name is
> not allowed.
> 
> 
> CTS URN registration
> 
>    CTS URNs provide permanent, canonical, scholarly references to
>    texts or passages of text associated with the unique cultural
>    phenomena that humanists study.
> 
> s/unique cultural phenomena/cultural phenomena/ -- I can't see any
> manner in which the enormous number of humanistic phenomena are each
> "unique".

I defer to the registrants on that topic.

>    Syntax:
> 
>    The general structure of a CTS URN is as follows:
> 
>    urn:cts:SUBNAMESPACE:WORK:PASSAGE@SUBREFERENCE
> 
>    ...
> 
>    A detailed definition of CTS syntax can be found at:
> 
>    http://cite-architecture.org/ctsurn/
> 
> Unfortunately, neither this registration nor the pointed-to syntax
> definition gives an exact description of the syntax.  E.g., at every
> location where I noticed a part of the syntax described as "optional",
> there was no exact statement regarding what adjacent separating
> characters could or could not be omitted.  BNF is necessary.

ABNF is always good. I'm not sure if the registrants are familiar with
ABNF but I'm sure we'd be happy to coach them.

>    o An optional passage reference refers either to an individual
>      passage or to a range of passages within a work. [...]
> 
>    o An optional subreference identifies a span within a single
>      citation unit using indexed substrings. [...]
> 
> No assignment process is specified for either of these components.

As far as I can see, those constructs would not need formal assignment.
Indeed, it's probably best for them to be represented by an f-component:

   The f-component is intended to be interpreted by the client as a
   specification for a location within, or region of, the named
   resource.  It distinguishes the constituent parts of a resource named
   by a URN.

Thus we would have URNs like this (note the `#`):

urn:cts:SUBNAMESPACE:WORK#PASSAGE@SUBREFERENCE

Peter