Re: [v6ops] FW: Can you please review and comment on draft-xiao-v6ops-nd-deployment-guidelines

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sun, 24 October 2021 19:29 UTC

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To: Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, "gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 08:29:14 +1300
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] FW: Can you please review and comment on draft-xiao-v6ops-nd-deployment-guidelines
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> But the fact is we give each mobile phone is /64 today, and each RG (resident gateway) a /56.  So giving a host a /64 is already a widely existed current practice.   

Note that if a mobile device (maybe not a phone!) is acting as a local hotspot, it needs a prefix, not an address, and /64 is the longest prefix that respects the current addressing architecture. Even that does not allow subnetting.

Regards
    Brian Carpenter
    Thinking of the IETF standards process: https://xkcd.com/2530/

On 25-Oct-21 05:04, Xipengxiao wrote:
> Hi Gert,
> 
> Thank you for your time to review and comment.  Please see my response in line.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 10:08 AM
>> To: Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com>
>> Cc: v6ops@ietf.org; gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com
>> Subject: Re: [v6ops] FW: Can you please review and comment on draft-xiao-
>> v6ops-nd-deployment-guidelines
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 07:26:12PM +0000, Xipengxiao wrote:
>>>> 2. I expect a lot of objections to UPPH. It really is a ridiculous
>>>> waste of address space, unless we can reduce the subnet size with a
>>>> prefix greater than /64, and that seems very difficult in the IETF.
>>>
>>> [XX] While I acknowledge that giving each host a /64 may seem
>>> wasteful, in reality it may not be so bad, for 2 reasons (1) I heard
>>> that RIR will give /29 to an applicant without requiring special
>>> justification. This will provide 2**35=32 billion /64's - more than
>>> enough I would think
>>
>> The /29 is intended to number many individual customers.  ISPs are giving /56s
>> out of this to "SOHO" customers, and /48s to "business customers".
>   
> [XX] A business Wi-Fi deployment can be considered as a " business customer", and be given a /48 as you suggest. This will allow 64K hosts if each host gets a /64.  Seems like a reasonable arrangement to me.
> 
>> You can't assume that these are all free to be burned in arbitrary numbers of
>> /64s on wifi deployments.
>>
>> (I, for one, will never ever deploy technology that will require me to allocate
>> something like a /54 to a wifi network, just to be able to serve 1000 mobile
>> clients [/54 = 2^10 = 1024 /64s] - which is not even very large for a corp wifi)
>   
> [XX] Your opinion is respected.  But the fact is we give each mobile phone is /64 today, and each RG (resident gateway) a /56.  So giving a host a /64 is already a widely existed current practice.
> 
>>> (2) We are giving a /64 to each mobile phone.  If we can afford that
>>> in this scenario (with by far the largest number of hosts), we should
>>> be able to afford that in other scenarios (with smaller number of
>>> hosts).  Do you agree?
>>
>> This is totally not comparable, as there are many layers of address not involved
>> here.  Mobile ISPs get the /29 "all for themselves", and the way stuff attaches
>> to the mobile network is way different from the way wifi segments are
>> attached to normal building networks.
>   
> [XX] First our draft is not specific to Wi-Fi.  Second, why giving a host a /64 or not depends on " the way stuff attaches
> to the network"?
> 
>>
>> (I like the idea of being able to delegate a /96 with DHCPv6-PD to each device,
>> to appease Lorenzo and finally be done with the everlasting
>> DHCPv6 vs. Android discussion - but the numbers for /64 are really not working
>> out)
> 
> [XX] I have no problem with what you suggested, but that's a different discussion.  Please note that our draft didn't prescribe any new solution (or advocate giving each host a /64).  All it did was reviewing the existing ND issues and solutions, and suggested how to select a solution based on the deployment scenario.
> 
> Thanks again for your time.  It's appreciated!
> 
> XiPeng
> 
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