IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sun, 10 April 2022 20:54 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2573A0CF4 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:54:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.109
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hyMb57FyGhkB for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11A0D3A0CF1 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id k14so12503668pga.0 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4Q3vmXrDek8GYyq283ZwypzwyJ0vIlD48rxG46xkOcM=; b=M4azTlrzWwp/7XX7L0zH/ZPOZbQovFNBJN2qSgyCFaB2Ao9Mlvx6auYjacukI9tx22 bnI/je3yY8f2g1LAzEnkg+OSWOeIKp547ZO9KnaDchoIu/gbd+FPSNnPeb+Q49mePuuU /j1v/TcresPJXKtPht17VGy4IOjbJmmf6KM0Kts4HMKRLe4ribUl5NNcZFc5bIgS8nUM JvaOT5JRooFvvGhm5h7gvnqD2HVxYiJOVoJc/E51zIETms2XVnaSYwB8p448O4vhRiGQ F4vjry6NwEfdM79tS51JFzm2sKXffy7O/HO5gzqGQkdMP4CuU+hA/rav5guKuMgFI/O4 QRMQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4Q3vmXrDek8GYyq283ZwypzwyJ0vIlD48rxG46xkOcM=; b=bFf7KiriX9Oxp3mHYrYZUPCTOw3HZYVy+lXFOXNJ5tQpHkUX1yp08MB64tAFL0icYV MBZEgbBM4zhMnydXfoIm8amf9t7pkDD1GLRr+NZ1Y0y3gUkRHSSoAaLy0aM0nO3eXpuR CZU7GuydlSn/JCKvaaCmizA7P8QGoOVhCwCUJxkuEzhkF5+QLC0pHQ+rfgysEjLISX5H Z9Si0HEdeeONa68KVlY+16LYJB50o2BQwaCqOTLGKCvigttZ6RwzwWvwtKLKMj5aKvHW /cDF0kQ9+NC9fJrYEB5g3F5dHQF3ZYbq2lrJj9bfUsAXFqGO5U3D3hB7lbLCK8ueVkqK Go8g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532eiC2xNABu3fEt9wZFOQxEemVivQNmoeUz1GGZ/g+rmSQ4w5GB vjiibKgpOcOv43W348VuH2cDPt1JlO5RRA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJziS2zTuX/NT2HzQtrZcic1dgEVic6/7f3qNLBUhxLSMwm9dpikWMHY9v2LrbGFUv8lTp5R1A==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:3e0c:0:b0:398:2829:58cd with SMTP id l12-20020a633e0c000000b00398282958cdmr24209477pga.464.1649624091740; Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:54:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f64-20020a17090a704600b001c77c6a391csm4872692pjk.26.2022.04.10.13.54.48 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: otroan@employees.org, Chongfeng Xie <xiechf@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: v6ops@ietf.org, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
References: <BL0PR05MB5316218855CC3A9E72035B79AEE59@BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <fc22549a-22de-0895-dbbf-2691e19a150f@gmail.com> <A8A29F5D-2BA0-4368-913F-F7B0E772587E@consulintel.es> <202204102024081707127@chinatelecom.cn> <6D2586A4-E5EE-488B-91F2-470726A23DDA@employees.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <173b0559-6399-bbb3-cec2-1b46d7e41605@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:54:46 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <6D2586A4-E5EE-488B-91F2-470726A23DDA@employees.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/eZDgPueu184bI4gpvXnebu--c-Y>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 20:54:58 -0000

On 11-Apr-22 05:52, otroan@employees.org wrote:
>> IPv6-only network should keep the ability for users to access the global IPv4 Internet, so IPv4aaS is a indispensible feature of IPv6-only network, which should become common sense and be solidfied in IETF.
> 
> 
> That's generally resulting in what we call a dual-stack network. :-)

Nobody is arguing about the technical facts here. The issue is how we present them to the outside world.

What I am saying is that the phrase "IPv6-only" has an immediate *emotional* impact on the reader, and every time you use it, you repel exactly the people we are trying to reach: enterprise and ISP operators whose entire job today depends on IPv4.

We made a basic mistake 25 years ago by using the word "transition" when we should have used "coexistence", and we make our job harder every time we use the phrase "IPv6-only".

When people read "IPv6-only with IPv4AaS" they only see "IPv6-only". (That means all people except a few people who are on this list.) I believe that if we write "IPv6 backbone" or "IPv6 underlay" we will influence far more people.

    Brian

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email