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Re: Review of 'draft-xu-v6ops-hybrid-framework-00.txt'

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 11 September 2009 02:32 UTC

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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:08:52 +1200
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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To: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
CC: shengjiang@huawei.com, v6ops <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>, xujf@gsta.com
Subject: Re: Review of 'draft-xu-v6ops-hybrid-framework-00.txt'
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On 2009-09-09 05:32, Templin, Fred L wrote:
> Hi Sheng,
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sheng Jiang [mailto:shengjiang@huawei.com]
>> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:14 AM
>> To: Templin, Fred L; 'v6ops'
>> Cc: xujf@gsta.com; 'Brian E Carpenter'
>> Subject: RE: Review of 'draft-xu-v6ops-hybrid-framework-00.txt'
>>
>> Hi, Templin,
>>
>> Thanks so much for your reviewing and comments.
>>
>> All of your comments are accepted and will be reflected in the next
> version,
>> except for the below one. Can I ask you a question here: overall, do
> you
>> think this draft is suitable for v6ops charter and mature enough to be
>> adopted as wg file?
>>
>>> 8) Section 3, second paragraph beginning: "In order to
>>> find NATs and traverse them,", this text seems to imply
>>> that *all* applications need to be made NAT-aware when
>>> in fact many/most applications are oblivious to NATs.
>>> Is there a certain class of applications this text is
>>> meaning to refer to? If so, the assumptions must be
>>> stated.
>> I guess, this refer is to these applications that want to traverse
> NATs. If
>> you have any specific text to suggest, we may adopt it in the next
> version.
> 
> I guess when I think of NAT discovery and traversal, I
> think of NAT-specific end system services like STUN, TURN,
> ICE, TEREDO, etc. and not about "ordinary" IPv4 applications
> like ftp, web browsing, etc. Here is a proposed rewrite that
> I think could accommodate the concern:
> 
>   "In order to find NATs and traverse them, end system services
>    have to understand network protocols deeply, invoke or interact
>    with network protocols directly and analyse network behaviours
>    by themselves, since the protocol stack on the end system is
>    not aware of NATs.

That seems correct; VoIP and P2P for example have to be aware
that there may be NATs in the path. In the GRO work
(draft-carpenter-behave-referral-object), we assume that
applications need to be aware of non-transparency in general.

I fear that we're heading towards a world in which applications
without this awareness will stop working.

    Brian

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