Re: [v6ops] IPv6 fragmentation experience

Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Fri, 23 March 2018 00:26 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55EA1270AE for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.99
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.99 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7FUsMydxKkV1 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3664A127058 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=DCmlhv19xeRseycZKNmvDstW6r6okbIQZ5ZBKq/mbCI=; b=hQF4L1SOe7JQdgZBnFTpPnxVKk 9K+VWGf0lu/j8DGM6V37YhO5bjngmv4HWfokTobRw5ONBilYmSeDmfx/IrGVr33URYacRliySPFs1 Fc8ByURVAOCzNlnS/fpczgun3d3VpVpq3dJ8Y6R/lPZEPqDaMgi8UXOEHG5R6dwFiZi+ixtCFbej3 ZHMHMVAT6cZl4NfuCGeJDEOVt2dW+n5rORAF5LrfIk5CXOtCPx9Nv7+D6YmGlXQW7kfujCHLHCK14 Mhi4vX71JMXDfvwlsYm/2Tmp8OTji2JONylgACG+Rg58Wjtd9ycanrkTdlhQriRo0Dbu806D/EDBj mWrPwMxQ==;
Received: from cpe-172-250-240-132.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.240.132]:58895 helo=[192.168.1.189]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from <touch@strayalpha.com>) id 1ezAX1-001lLd-Tw; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 20:26:08 -0400
To: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org WG" <v6ops@ietf.org>
References: <84080e87-9ec6-a676-b535-088470e43923@asgard.org> <alpine.DEB.2.20.1803201208550.20609@uplift.swm.pp.se> <561690FD-9016-4EB0-B03C-CE2BFE4BE7A0@employees.org> <7456C389-0CB0-4E9D-8622-E3461FAA4375@steffann.nl> <5F05318A-0B2D-4B6F-8442-6A0C7E9581EF@gmail.com> <6cc086ed-f6b4-60a9-d181-1e3a6a41c563@strayalpha.com> <alpine.DEB.2.20.1803210918100.20609@uplift.swm.pp.se> <92BFD600-9948-4E2C-80A1-F5F2BD320A31@strayalpha.com> <20180321200444.GX89741@Space.Net> <0c57a669-7cad-e554-b637-a6d86e0e7a67@strayalpha.com> <20180322102010.GE89741@Space.Net> <CAFU7BAQU9NNL=B7YjdNxDH9fjv3cFk=LUsz-eG0Rxe2gA6X+8g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
Message-ID: <85e26785-149c-aba7-d035-d49d2957405e@strayalpha.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:06 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAFU7BAQU9NNL=B7YjdNxDH9fjv3cFk=LUsz-eG0Rxe2gA6X+8g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/pZnvx2pDdYTPLl2SasuiyuUq-cw>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] IPv6 fragmentation experience
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 00:26:22 -0000

On 3/22/2018 9:45 AM, Jen Linkova wrote:
> Actually,,, There is one really nasty scenario when hashing is causing
> not just reordering but packet loss.
> Scenario 1.1: a router R1 is doing ECMP, sends 1st fragment to R2
> while other fragments went to R3. If the paths to the destination
> (anycast!) on R2 and R3 do not converge, 
(to finish that sentence correctly) then your routing is broken anyway
and all bets are off. Don't blame either fragmentation or ECMP for that
problem.

...
> Scenario 1.2: a load-balancer using 5-tupes and a number of end
> systems behind it. If the first fragment is forwarded by using L4
> info,
(again, to finish the sentence correctly) then the load balancer should
either reassemble the fragments or keep enough state to make sure they
fate-share to the same recipient. Otherwise, what you call a "load
balancer" is basically doing random forwarding, which is broken routing,
and again -- all bets are off.

Fragmentation isn't the cause of these problems; broken routing is.

Joe