Re: [Wpack] wpack - Not having a session at IETF 109

[Jeffrey Yasskin <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 9:58 PM Larry Masinter <[e-mail]> wrote:

> >>  The HTTPWG automatically forwards github activity to their mailing
> list. e.g.
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2020OctDec/0032.html.
> Might it help to set up the same thing here?
>
> How do you imagine that helping with the issues I outlined?
>

You complained about "not using the mailing list". This would get more
traffic on the mailing list and might incite people to reply here who
aren't watching the github repository. That, in turn, would help the chairs
decide to hold meetings and figure out what aspects of the project have
interest. Maybe I'm wrong about all that, but it's what I imagine.

Jeffrey

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:05 PM Jeffrey Yasskin <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>> The HTTPWG automatically forwards github activity to their mailing list.
>> e.g.
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2020OctDec/0032.html.
>> Might it help to set up the same thing here?
>>
>> Jeffrey
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:12 AM Larry Masinter <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> This isn't a case of choosing between 'during IETF week' vs 'an interim'
>>> but rather meeting vs. only meeting once as a working group  And not using
>>> the mailing list either
>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wpack/1Bmq3SQNdBSHxn_otyPCzzdlXas/
>>>
>>>
>>> "It's my fault that much more discussion has happened on
>>>
>>> https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/ PRs and issues, and even private
>>> discussions, than this mailing list. Sorry about that. I don't think you've
>>> missed anything significant since IETF 106, as I was mostly waiting for the
>>> WG to finish spinning up. Hopefully having actual chairs will help us do
>>> better here in the future."
>>>
>>> So... apparently not. Although it seems a bit ironic to cite lack of mailing list discussion as the reason for not meeting.
>>>
>>> To be clear, it's fine they're not meeting; to misquote Sandburg, "what if they held a meeting and nobody came?"
>>>
>>> What I was hoping for was a way of having a discussion of why they aren' also pursuing a solution to two other IETF problems which seem within reach. Not the kind of discussion suitable for a Pull Request on GitHub.
>>>
>>> To make a concrete suggestion rather than just whining:
>>>
>>> Perhaps when the IETF is SHMOOing there could be longer all-area review meetings where each active working group gets 10-15 minutes (with chairs, document authors, AD's present) to review their status and schedule and answer questions. Or, if not as part of IETF week, some other kind of tour for tourists, well enough in advance to schedule a follow up if needed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 11:57 PM Carsten Bormann <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2020-10-12, at 06:08, Larry Masinter <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > now perhaps you'll say these concerns are "out of scope" but perhaps
>>>> there are other groups also deciding "attending" an IETF meeting is
>>>> optional.
>>>>
>>>> The choice between a meeting slot during IETF week and an interim isn’t
>>>> always a very obvious choice.
>>>>
>>>> Some meetings are preferentially held during IETF week, such as BOFs.
>>>>
>>>> More generally, in IETF week, there maybe is more of an expectation of
>>>> generalists (“tourists”) coming in, so this is where new, formational work
>>>> should be discussed (as opposed to dotting the i's and crossing the t’s,
>>>> which might as well be done in an interim).
>>>>
>>>> Interims can be scheduled more dynamically, and can be very focused on
>>>> a single subject — with luck, IETF week meetings happen exactly at the
>>>> right time for that, too, but that is less likely.  There is less pressure
>>>> to squeeze out good use of the last minute in the slot in an interim;
>>>> ending an interim after 30 minutes can be OK if all the goals for the
>>>> meeting were met.  Conversely, the sparseness (and scarcity) of an IETF
>>>> week meeting means there is more incentive to have all your ducks in a row
>>>> and actually end the meeting with some (rough) consensus established.
>>>>
>>>> Right now, IETF week also has the advantage of getting to use meetecho
>>>> as opposed to Webex or some random other Web conferencing scheme selected
>>>> by the chairs (which sometimes means I can’t attend).
>>>>
>>>> Grüße, Carsten
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wpack mailing list
>>> [e-mail]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpack
>>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> https://LarryMasinter.net <http://larry.masinter.net>
>