Re: [Xml-sg-cmt] <u> notation - Fwd: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9290 <draft-ietf-core-problem-details-08> for your review

[Peter Saint-Andre <[e-mail]>]

This seems fine to me, although the "NEW:" text is not yet in the PDF 
file (I suppose it will be in your forthcoming update).

On 9/6/22 3:50 PM, Sandy Ginoza wrote:
> Hi Team,
> 
> Please see Carsten's reply below; our understanding is that the display 
> we see of the XML file in emacs is application-specific, and that it's 
> OK to proceed. Please let us know if you believe otherwise.
> 
> Please note that there is some urgency here in that I will be posting an 
> updated document today and expect the author approvals to follow quickly.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sandy
> 
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *Carsten Bormann <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>> *Subject: **Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9290 
>> <draft-ietf-core-problem-details-08> for your review*
>> *Date: *September 1, 2022 at 1:10:09 AM PDT
>> *To: *Sandy Ginoza <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>> *Cc: *RFC Editor <[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>>, Thomas Fossati <[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>>, Jaime Jiménez <[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>" 
>> <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>
>> Hi Sandy,
>>
>>
>>> On 31. Aug 2022, at 23:15, Sandy Ginoza <[e-mail] 
>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Carsten,
>>>
>>> Note that this is my fault as Megan is on vacation.  I delayed 
>>> replying while we tested the updated version of xml2rfc to correct 
>>> the PDF display of the Hebrew string.  It seems the PDF glitch 
>>> (issue #873) has been fixed - please confirm, as our copy (from PDF) 
>>> & paste experience is not what we expect.
>>>
>>> See https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.pdf 
>>> <https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.pdf>
>>
>> This indeed looks good now.
>>
>>> Regarding the example from A.3 in the attached screenshot.
>>> At this point, 2 questions:
>>>
>>> 1) Does it seem odd to you that the source file (rfc9290.xml) 
>>> contains the string in the reverse of how it is rendered in the 
>>> publication formats? To be exact:
>>> The desired string: שָׁלוֹם
>>> (which we see in the TXT, HTML, and PDF)
>>> The reversed string: םולש
>>> (which we see in the sourcecode elements and u element of the XML file)
>>
>> I’m not sure I’m seeing the same here you do (see screenshot below). 
>>  But that is pretty natural in this space...
>>
>> The HTML (and thus PDF) publication formats pick up the “strong 
>> directional” nature of the Hebrew characters and switch to RTL rendering.
>> This is certainly odd to readers that are not familiar with mixed 
>> LTR/RTL rendering, but it is the way the RTL writing systems operate.
>>
>> Whether your plaintext editor picks up RTL information from the 
>> characters or not depends on the editor.
>> If it does (e.g., Emacs does), moving the cursor *forward* (often done 
>> with the cursor-right key) may go *left* on the Hebrew part, which is 
>> the telltale sign of RTL support.
>> (If the editor tries to hide the RTL presentation by stepping you in 
>> geometric sequence, like the Apple Mail compose editor does, selecting 
>> a part straddling the RTL/LTR boundary may be the only way to tell.)
>>
>>> 2) For clarity, would it sense to walk through the string character 
>>> by character, or do you prefer the current form? In other words, what 
>>> do you think of changing from
>>> string (names, nums)
>>> to
>>> char (name, num), char (name, num), char (name, num), char (name, num)
>>> For example, please see:
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/v3test/rfc9290_A3test.html#appendix-A.3-7 
>>> <https://www.rfc-editor.org/v3test/rfc9290_A3test.html#appendix-A.3-7>
>>
>> I like the direction [pun not intended] of this change.
>>
>> But I would like to make it clear that the sequence of writing the 
>> characters is orthogonal to the presentation as LTR or RTL text:
>>
>> OLD:
>> The following example shows how the Hebrew-language string is 
>> represented, where in the rtldirection, each character is: "ש" (HEBREW 
>> LETTER SHIN, U+05E9), "ל" (HEBREW LETTER LAMED, U+05DC),"ו" (HEBREW 
>> LETTER VAV, U+05D5), "ם" (HEBREW LETTER FINAL MEM, U+05DD). Note 
>> the rtl direction expressed by setting the third element in the array 
>> to "true”.
>>
>> NEW:
>> The following example shows how the Hebrew-language string "שלום" is 
>> represented, where in direction of reading, the sequence of characters 
>> is: "ש" (HEBREW LETTER SHIN, U+05E9), "ל" (HEBREW LETTER LAMED, 
>> U+05DC),"ו" (HEBREW LETTER VAV, U+05D5), "ם" (HEBREW LETTER FINAL MEM, 
>> U+05DD). Note the rtl direction expressed by setting the third element 
>> in the array to "true”.
>>
>> Because of the brutal way in which xml2rfc enforces its narrow 
>> understanding of RFC 7997, you may need to push the first “שלום” into 
>> artwork (which would allow getting rid of the quotes).
>>
>> Grüße, Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>> RFC Editor/sg
>>>
>>> <Screen Shot 2022-08-31 at 1.37.02 PM.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Aug 31, 2022, at 7:34 AM, Carsten Bormann <[e-mail] 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Megan,
>>>>
>>>> let me briefly note that our two approvals have not made it yet to 
>>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9290 
>>>> <https://www.rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9290> — just in case this is 
>>>> slowing down the process.
>>>>
>>>> Grüße, Carsten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-08-23, at 11:04, Thomas Fossati <[e-mail] 
>>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, 22 August 2022 at 22:45, Carsten Bormann <[e-mail] 
>>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>>> After repairing the PDF glitch and the typo, and possibly addressing
>>>>>> the above nits, I believe that RFC9290-to-be will be ready for
>>>>>> publication.
>>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments 
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>>>
>>
> 
>