Re: [Xml-sg-cmt] [AD] Use of <u> - Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9290 <draft-ietf-core-problem-details-08> for your review

Sandy Ginoza <sginoza@amsl.com> Wed, 24 August 2022 22:27 UTC

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From: Sandy Ginoza <sginoza@amsl.com>
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Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 15:27:02 -0700
In-Reply-To: <b8440f51-f10a-4ce3-3724-b21c33e729e3@taugh.com>
Cc: Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini@ericsson.com>, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>, xml-sg-cmt@ietf.org, RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
To: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
References: <20220804195913.906BF55ECC@rfcpa.amsl.com> <09E929D2-4499-4D76-B30F-DF5351BFDF3C@amsl.com> <b8440f51-f10a-4ce3-3724-b21c33e729e3@taugh.com>
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Subject: Re: [Xml-sg-cmt] [AD] Use of <u> - Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9290 <draft-ietf-core-problem-details-08> for your review
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Hi John, CMT, 

The full text is as follows, which indicates rtl:

   The following example shows how the Hebrew-language string "םולש"
   (HEBREW LETTER SHIN, HEBREW LETTER LAMED, HEBREW LETTER VAV, HEBREW
   LETTER FINAL MEM, U+05E9 U+05DC U+05D5 U+05DD) is represented.  Note
   the rtl direction expressed by setting the third element in the array
   to "true".

   38(["he", "םולש", true])

   D8 26                     # tag(38)
      83                     # array(3)
         62                  # text(2)
            6865             # "he"
         68                  # text(8)
            D7A9D79CD795D79D # "םולש"
         F5                  # primitive(21)


Note the bold text.  I still find the display odd in that I expect something like ש (HEBREW LETTER SHIN, U+05E9), ל (HEBREW LETTER LAMED, U+05DC), …. But, perhaps this means the order of the U+ notation is ok as it is?  Do you think further clarification is needed?

Thanks,
Sandy 




> On Aug 15, 2022, at 4:38 PM, John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> 
>> I’ve dropped the authors and auth48archive list from this discussion in case this issue has already been debated.  Please let me know if you’d like me to take this to the wider list.
>> 
>> This document includes the following Hebrew string using <u>.
>> 
>> In the XML:
>>   <t>The following example shows how the Hebrew-language string
>> <u>םולש</u> is represented.
>> 
>> In the text:
>> The following example shows how the Hebrew-language string "םולש"
>> (HEBREW LETTER SHIN, HEBREW LETTER LAMED, HEBREW LETTER VAV, HEBREW
>> LETTER FINAL MEM, U+05E9 U+05DC U+05D5 U+05DD) is represented.
>> 
>> We discussed this presentation with the RFC XML and Style Guide change management (CCed) team and we’re wondering if this is the desired presentation?  There was discussion about whether the U+ notation and names should be grouped differently, for example, HEBREW LETTER SHIN (U+05E9), HEBREW LETTER LAMED (U+05DC)….  There was also a suggestion that the authors describe the U+ notation instead of xml2rfc automatically doing this, in an attempt to provide better explanations — for example, because Hebrew is read RTL, should the U+ notation be described RTL?  Using <translate.google.com>, the RTL string means “peace” while the LTR version means “three”.  Has this already been discussed?  Are changes needed?  Do you want to encourage explanatory text?
> 
> Under the circumstances, particularly since the word makes sense in either direction, I would ask the authors to reword the sentence to make it clear which one they mean, and also whether they think the Unicode names or the hex codes would be useful to readers.
> 
> R's,
> John
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Aug 4, 2022, at 12:59 PM, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org wrote:
>>> 
>>> Authors,
>>> 
>>> While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as necessary) the following questions, which are also in the XML file.
>>> 
>>> 1) <!-- [rfced] Please note that the title of the document has been
>>>    updated as follows:
>>> 
>>> Abbreviations have been expanded per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 (“RFC
>>> Style Guide”). Please review.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>> Concise Problem Details For CoAP APIs
>>> 
>>> Current:
>>> Concise Problem Details for Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) APIs
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2) <!--[rfced] *Thomas - we note your organization has been indicated as
>>>    "Arm Limited" and "ARM" in recently published RFCs.  Please let
>>>    us know if/how "arm" should be updated.-->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 3) <!--[rfced] Is this sentence redundant with regard to the use of
>>>    "information...is sometimes not sufficient to convey enough
>>>    information"?
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>> REST response status information such as CoAP response codes
>>> (Section 5.9 of [RFC7252]) is sometimes not sufficient to convey
>>> enough information about an error to be helpful.
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 4) <!-- [rfced] Regarding the SVG in this document, please see the
>>>    warning below when generating HTML output. May the attributes be
>>>    updated so that the figure can scale?
>>> 
>>> Warning: Found SVG with width or height specified, which will make the
>>> artwork not scale. Specify a viewBox only to let the artwork scale.
>>> 
>>> Current:
>>> artwork type="svg" align="center"><svg
>>> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1" height="256"
>>> width="288" viewBox="0 0 288 256" class="diagram" text-anchor="middle"
>>> font-family="monospace" font-size="13px"
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 5) <!--[rfced] This document uses pointers to section numbers of STDs.
>>> 
>>> (Section 5.1 of [STD66])
>>> as per Section 5 of [STD66]
>>> per Section 5.1.3 of [STD66]
>>> (see Section 5.3.2 of [STD94])
>>> Section 6.2 of [STD94]
>>> 
>>> As STDs may contain more than one RFC in the future, should the
>>> reference entries actually point to the individual RFCs?  Or is an
>>> update like the following desirable?
>>> 
>>> (Section 5.1 of RFC 3986 [STD66])
>>> as per Section 5 of RFC 3986 [STD66].
>>> per Section 5.1.3 of RFC 3986 [STD66]
>>> (see Section 5.3.2 of RFC 8949 [STD94]).
>>> Section 6.2 of RFC 8949 [STD94].
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 6) <!--[rfced] The verb "persist" is intransitive (takes no object).
>>>    Please review this text and let us know how we may rephrase.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  To support the use case of message body
>>>  persistence without support by the problem-details generator, the
>>>  entity that persists the Concise Problem Details data item can copy
>>>  over the CoAP response code that it received on the CoAP level.
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 7) <!--[rfced] May we replace the slashes with "and" or "or" for clarity?
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>> When storing the data item for future use or forwarding it to other
>>> consumers, it is strongly RECOMMENDED to retain the unrecognized
>>> entries; exceptions might be when storage/forwarding occurs in a
>>> different format/protocol that cannot accommodate them or when the
>>> storage/forwarding function needs to filter out privacy-sensitive
>>> information and for that needs to assume unrecognized entries might be
>>> privacy-sensitive.
>>> 
>>> Suggested:
>>> When storing the data item for future use or forwarding it to other
>>> consumers, it is strongly RECOMMENDED to retain the unrecognized
>>> entries; exceptions might be when storage or forwarding occurs in a
>>> different format or protocol that cannot accommodate them or when the
>>> storage and forwarding function needs to filter out privacy-sensitive
>>> information and for that needs to assume unrecognized entries might be
>>> privacy-sensitive.
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 8) <!--[rfced] May we replace the slashes with "and" or "or" for clarity?
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>> Note that the URI given for the extension is for identification
>>> purposes only and, even if dereferenceable in principle, it MUST NOT be
>>> dereferenced in the normal course of handling problem details
>>> (i.e., outside diagnostic/debugging procedures involving humans).
>>> 
>>> Suggested:
>>> Note that the URI given for the extension is for identification
>>> purposes only and, even if dereferenceable in principle, it MUST NOT be
>>> dereferenced in the normal course of handling problem details
>>> (i.e., outside diagnostic and debugging procedures involving humans).
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 9) <!--[rfced] This text is difficult to parse.  Perhaps breaking up this
>>>    sentence would be helpful for the reader?  In particular, we had
>>>    trouble with "the keys...are defined specifically to the
>>>    identifier": is the identifier the receiver of the definition or
>>>    is the intended meaning that the keys are customized by
>>>    identifier?  Please rephrase.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  In summary, the keys for the maps used inside Custom Problem Detail
>>>  entries are defined specifically to the identifier of that Custom
>>>  Problem Detail entry, the documentation of which defines these
>>>  internal entries, typically chosen to address a given application
>>>  domain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 10) <!--[rfced] We had the following questions about this text from
>>>    Section 5.
>>> 
>>> a) Please review our update to the following to ensure we have
>>> captured your intent.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>> ...they equally apply to the problem detail entry definitions used
>>> here Section 3;
>>> 
>>> Current:
>>> ...they equally apply to the problem detail entry definitions used
>>> in Section 3;
>>> 
>>> b) Who does "they" refer to here?
>>> 
>>>  ...in summary: both when defining new detail entries, and when
>>>  actually generating a Concise Problem Details data item, care needs
>>>  to be taken that they do not leak sensitive information.
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 11) <!--[rfced] May we update the occurrences of [RFC7807] or RFC 7807 as
>>>    an adjective as follows?
>>> 
>>> Originals:
>>> ...for new RFC 7807 problem types...
>>> 
>>> Carry RFC 7807 problem  details in a Concise Problem Details data item...
>>> 
>>> On certain occasions, it will be necessary to carry ("tunnel")
>>> [RFC7807] problem details in a Concise Problem Details data item.
>>> 
>>> To carry an [RFC7807] problem details JSON object in a Concise
>>> Problem Details data item, ...
>>> 
>>> Move the values for "title", "detail", and "instance", if present,
>>> from the [RFC7807] problem details to the equivalent Standard Problem
>>> Detail entries.
>>> 
>>> ...in the converted [RFC7807] problem details object to the Custom
>>> Problem Details map unchanged.
>>> 
>>> Suggesteds:
>>> ...for new problems types as described in RFC 7807...
>>> 
>>> Carry problem  details as described in RFC 7807 in a Concise Problem Details data item
>>> 
>>> On certain occasions, it will be necessary to carry ("tunnel")
>>> problem details (from RFC 7807) in a Concise Problem Details data item.
>>> 
>>> To carry a problem details JSON object (from RFC 7807) in a Concise
>>> Problem Details data item, ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Move the values for "title", "detail", and "instance", if present,
>>> from the problem details from RFC 7807 to the equivalent Standard Problem
>>> Detail entries.
>>> 
>>> ...in the converted problem details object from RFC 8707 to the Custom
>>> Problem Details map unchanged.
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 12) <!--[rfced] Note that we updated the title of this registry to match
>>>    use by IANA (see
>>>    https://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/core-parameters.xhtml#core-custom-problem-detail-ke
>>> ys).
>>> 
>>> Old:
>>> 6.1.  Standard Problem Detail Key Registry
>>> 
>>> New:
>>> 6.1.  Standard Problem Detail Keys Registry
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 13) <!--[rfced] Please note that "Change Controller" is not a field in the
>>>    subregistry listed for "Standard Problem Detail Keys" or "Custom
>>>    Problem Detail Keys" at
>>>    https://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/.  Please review
>>>    and let us know if any further updates are necessary to the
>>>    document or the registry itself for either of these subregistries.
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 14) <!--[rfced] Because the "Standard Problem Detail Keys" subregistry
>>>    uses "Specification Required" as a Registration Procedure, will
>>>    the reader know who "The expert" is in the text below?  Or should
>>>    the Registration Procedure be updated?  (We note "Custom Problem
>>>    Detail Keys" uses "Expert Review"...).
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  The expert is requested to assign the shortest key values (1+0 and
>>>  1+1 encoding) to registrations that are likely to enjoy wide use and
>>>  can benefit from short encodings.
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 15) <!--[rfced] As we assume you are talking about registration
>>>    procedures, we have made "first-come-first-served" be "First Come
>>>    First Served" to match the use in RFC 8126. Please let us know if
>>>    this is not as intended.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>> The expert is instructed to attempt making the registration
>>> experience as close to first-come-first-served as reasonably
>>> achievable, ...
>>> 
>>> Current:
>>> The expert is instructed to attempt making the registration experience
>>> as close to First Come First Served as reasonably achievable, ...
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 16) <!--[rfced] Please confirm that this text is intended to appear in
>>>    Section 6.2.  We see the same text in Section 6.1, but the Key
>>>    Values in both registries seem quite different.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  The expert is requested to assign the shortest key values (1+0 and
>>>  1+1 encoding) to registrations that are likely to enjoy wide use and
>>>  can benefit from short encodings.
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 17) <!--[rfced] We note that the Media Type registration in Section 6.3 is
>>>    missing some of the fields from the template set out in RFC 6838.
>>> 
>>> Specifically, we do not see "Additional Information:" and its
>>> subfields (Deprecated alias names for this type, Magic number(s), File
>>> extension(s), and Macintosh file type code(s)).  Note that RFC 6838
>>> gives advice regarding these fields when empty.  Please let us know
>>> if/how we may update.
>>> 
>>> Note that we will communicate any updates to this text to IANA for
>>> them to update
>>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/concise-problem-details+cbor
>>> accordingly prior to pubication.
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 18) <!--[rfced] We note that the CoAP Content-Formats registry
>>>    (https://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/core-parameters.xhtml#content-formats)
>>>    has the following headings:
>>> 
>>> Media Type
>>> Encoding
>>> ID
>>> Reference
>>> 
>>> This document mentions in a comment (marked to be removed):
>>> 
>>>  In the registry as defined by Section 12.3 of [RFC7252] at the time
>>>  of writing, the column "Content-Type" is called "Media type" and the
>>>  column "Content Coding" is called "Encoding".
>>> 
>>> Should Table 4 be updated to use these same headings?  Or is there a
>>> reason for the disparity between this document and the IANA
>>> registry?-->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 19) <!--[rfced] We do not see mention of Appendix A in the CBOR Tags
>>>    registry
>>>    (https://www.iana.org/assignments/cbor-tags/cbor-tags.xhtml)
>>>    "Reference" column as requested in Section 6.5 of this document.
>>>    Please let us know if an update to this document or IANA is
>>>    necessary.-->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 20) <!--[rfced] Please note that we have moved the annotations from the Unicode references into the body
>>> of the document that discusses Unicode.  -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 21) <!-- [rfced] Please review whether any of the notes in this document
>>>    should be in the <aside> element. It is defined as "a container
>>>    for content that is semantically less important or tangential to
>>>    the content that surrounds it"
>>>    (https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-doc.html#name-aside-2).
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 22) <!-- [rfced] FYI - address munging is not allowed per Section 4.12 of
>>>    RFC 7322 "RFC Style Guide"; we have updated Peter's email address
>>>    as follows:
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>> poccil14 at gmail dot com
>>> 
>>> Changed to:
>>> poccil14@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 23) <!-- [rfced] We have several questions about the names of data items,
>>>    keys, and entries throughout the text.  Please review and let us
>>>    know how we may make these more uniform.
>>> 
>>> a) Please review the uses below and let us know if any updates should
>>> be made as relates to the use of these seemingly related terms:
>>> 
>>> ...defines a concise "problem detail"...
>>> Concise Problem Details data item
>>> ...beyond concise problem details may adopt the tag defined here.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> b) We see both "Custom Problem Detail" and "Custom Problem Details"
>>> (plural).  May we default to the singular?  Some related use cases
>>> that may warrant review follow, which may also illuminate some capping
>>> issues:
>>> 
>>> ...register such a custom problem detail entry to receive a ...
>>> Custom Problem Detail entry
>>> Custom Problem Details entry (see Appendix B)
>>> Custom Problem Detail key
>>> Custom Problem Details map
>>> 
>>> c) May we update "Problem Details data item" to read as "Custom
>>> Problem Detail data item" in the following text?
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  Applications may extend the Problem Details data item with
>>>  additional entries to convey additional, application-specific
>>>  information.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps:
>>>  Applications may extend the Custom Problem Detail data item with
>>>  additional entries to convey additional, application-specific
>>>  information.
>>> 
>>> d) We will lowercase "Entries" to match use of other similar terms for
>>> "Standard Problem Detail Entries" (i.e., making it "Standard Problem
>>> Detail entries").
>>> 
>>> e) Please review the capitalization of "problem details" in the two
>>> following sentences as relates to the JSON object.  SHould this be
>>> made consistent?
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  To carry an [RFC7807] problem details JSON object in a Concise
>>>  Problem Details data item,...
>>> 
>>> and
>>> 
>>> The inverse direction, carrying Concise Problem Details in a Problem
>>>  Details JSON object
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 24) <!--[rfced] Throughout the document, we see use of similar terms that
>>>    may be inconsistent.  Please review these occurrences and let us
>>>    know if any updates are necessary.
>>> 
>>> a) Should mentions of the follow be made uniform?
>>> 
>>> tag38
>>> tag 38
>>> CBOR Tag 38
>>> CBOR tag 38
>>> 
>>> b) The following uses seem similar, but have some variances in quotation and parenthetical use.  Please review for uniformity.
>>> 
>>> The "title" string
>>> 
>>> unadorned text string (not using tag 38) vs. unadorned text string vs.
>>> unadorned CBOR text string (text)
>>> 
>>> language-tagged text string (tag38)
>>> language-tagged text strings in COBR
>>> language-tagged strings
>>> 
>>> UTF-8 text string (major type 3)
>>> 
>>> c) How should member names be treated?  We see some names in double
>>> quotes:
>>> 
>>> "base-uri" member vs. base-uri member
>>> "response-code" member vs. the response-code member (also "response-code" value)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 25) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the online
>>> Style Guide <https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/#inclusive_language>
>>> and let us know if any changes are needed. -->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> RFC Editor/st/mf
>>> 
>>> *****IMPORTANT*****
>>> 
>>> Updated 2022/08/04
>>> 
>>> RFC Author(s):
>>> --------------
>>> 
>>> Instructions for Completing AUTH48
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> You may submit your changes in one of two ways:
>>> 
>>> An update to the provided XML file
>>> — OR —
>>> An explicit list of changes in this format
>>> 
>>> Section # (or indicate Global)
>>> 
>>> OLD:
>>> old text
>>> 
>>> NEW:
>>> new text
>>> 
>>> You do not need to reply with both an updated XML file and an explicit
>>> list of changes, as either form is sufficient.
>>> 
>>> We will ask a stream manager to review and approve any changes that seem
>>> beyond editorial in nature, e.g., addition of new text, deletion of text,
>>> and technical changes.  Information about stream managers can be found in
>>> the FAQ.  Editorial changes do not require approval from a stream manager.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Approving for publication
>>> --------------------------
>>> 
>>> To approve your RFC for publication, please reply to this email stating
>>> that you approve this RFC for publication.  Please use ‘REPLY ALL’,
>>> as all the parties CCed on this message need to see your approval.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Files
>>> -----
>>> 
>>> The files are available here:
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.xml
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.html
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.pdf
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.txt
>>> 
>>> Diff file of the text:
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290-diff.html
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290-rfcdiff.html (side by side)
>>> 
>>> Diff of the XML:
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290-xmldiff1.html
>>> 
>>> The following files are provided to facilitate creation of your own
>>> diff files of the XML.
>>> 
>>> Initial XMLv3 created using XMLv2 as input:
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.original.v2v3.xml
>>> 
>>> XMLv3 file that is a best effort to capture v3-related format updates
>>> only:
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9290.form.xml
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tracking progress
>>> -----------------
>>> 
>>> The details of the AUTH48 status of your document are here:
>>>  https://www.rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9290
>>> 
>>> Please let us know if you have any questions.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your cooperation,
>>> 
>>> RFC Editor
>>> 
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> RFC9290 (draft-ietf-core-problem-details-08)
>>> 
>>> Title            : Concise Problem Details For CoAP APIs
>>> Author(s)        : T. Fossati, C. Bormann
>>> WG Chair(s)      : Jaime Jimenez, Marco Tiloca
>>> Area Director(s) : Murray Kucherawy, Francesca Palombini
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> Regards,
> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
> 
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