Re: [6lowpan] [Roll] draft-kelsey-intarea-mesh-link-establishment-03.txt

Don Sturek <d.sturek@att.net> Fri, 15 June 2012 14:27 UTC

Return-Path: <d.sturek@att.net>
X-Original-To: 6lowpan@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 6lowpan@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C50121F8769 for <6lowpan@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 07:27:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.544
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bl30-Vzcgq+g for <6lowpan@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 07:27:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nm34-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm34-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.229.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A1BF21F8758 for <6lowpan@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 07:27:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [98.138.90.48] by nm34.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2012 14:27:17 -0000
Received: from [68.142.194.244] by tm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2012 14:27:17 -0000
Received: from [66.94.237.99] by t2.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2012 14:27:17 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2012 14:27:17 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 629659.11249.bm@omp1004.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Received: (qmail 41982 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2012 14:27:17 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1339770437; bh=B3MkwchSpRexCffgMr0QGIQ9B4f3EDxbXD12jApPkT4=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:CC:Message-ID:Thread-Topic:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding; b=IU7Tk38htPR/QSrlTMwB4NMGuPW/YLyPoIOEl8uiPWlc+H/BfWILo2xlpaEX4PGjHWf+5n4PEojvTbuEn1OxX3XlLR3DENiFXSV0SyqNdwhpV1vvycap2frvwTQnASUCjw8BU/YUZr1orX5l2VPdQZ/s9bLcy+j03bNjjK+EId8=
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3
X-YMail-OSG: HntDCzIVM1lnXKz4VWlUDBSGugYmHw_mtZtYwfWkN15O9WW iDcDVM64.FYNAM0Bnu54QssHvQ2lty180ytgKww421sNbFQAYfPd8sEQ.LH7 HkXfNEKb0ucgd0chtGc5K_Y3cN5sLSew7ToZczP2IcQ5nt_BBsr9YNr6vvWq dxkSz6.tWXmJdYsSEWC9.uW3p6c151zlSr9Seflm4ceZvRhxOrc4gFkk72rU Is3IGlQTIHP7rxSGX9iDJ1EgwFwg8l.aU_xohZtm2I3OpClPxRMdzILUyYUZ Z4W6oL_8LAJQoOQ8v46BM2NJihymd6XtMI6AITf_1_ZLyV2EhKxtX5eqToYA fe1gpMxeJneRWyO0PBTph9O6pOe9BFuf.4Ahs0arSAksu9e_T0zh_E3q.2Ed PpU7M8TOG9zrUtZgovii7YieLvFZFoN_B3ksXtAIxe6EyEumopWo-
X-Yahoo-SMTP: fvjol_aswBAraSJvMLe2r1XTzhBhbFxY8q8c3jo-
Received: from [10.242.10.248] (d.sturek@208.54.15.47 with login) by smtp111.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2012 07:27:16 -0700 PDT
User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 07:19:53 -0700
From: Don Sturek <d.sturek@att.net>
To: Thomas Heide Clausen <ietf@thomasclausen.org>
Message-ID: <CC009121.170A4%d.sturek@att.net>
Thread-Topic: [6lowpan] [Roll] draft-kelsey-intarea-mesh-link-establishment-03.txt
In-Reply-To: <2E20BD63-02D7-4275-A3C1-2E070D9BB90E@thomasclausen.org>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "<roll@ietf.org>" <roll@ietf.org>, "<6lowpan@ietf.org>" <6lowpan@ietf.org>, "<ipv6@ietf.org>" <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [6lowpan] [Roll] draft-kelsey-intarea-mesh-link-establishment-03.txt
X-BeenThere: 6lowpan@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working group discussion for IPv6 over LowPan networks <6lowpan.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/6lowpan>, <mailto:6lowpan-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6lowpan>
List-Post: <mailto:6lowpan@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:6lowpan-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowpan>, <mailto:6lowpan-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:27:19 -0000

Hi Thomas,

Sorry it was late when I wrote that response :-)

We debated a long time on MLE.  We knew we needed a one hop information
exchange between nodes to help with 6LoWPAN ND (eg exchange long address
information), link quality (eg. for creation and maintenance of symmetric
links), etc.   We looked at a lot of transport options and UDP seemed to
make the most sense.  One nice thing about having MLE use UDP:  If someone
wishes to extend MLE they don't need to have work done in ICMP or ROLL to
make it happen. 

I think we arrived at the Internet area for the draft since part of MLE
helps with 6LoWPAN ND, other functions help with ROLL RPL parent
selection.  I think we made these generic so others with similar needs
could make use of MLE without necessarily using either 6LoWPAN ND or ROLL
RPL.  That said, if ROLL is interested in this draft, Richard Kelsey (the
drafts author) has plenty of experience there :-)

Don




On 6/15/12 3:32 AM, "Thomas Heide Clausen" <ietf@thomasclausen.org> wrote:

>Not sure how fantastic (or not) it is - it is not immediately clear to me
>how tied MLE should be to RPL - if it truly aims at being for _MESH_ link
>establishment, then it would appear to be a much larger scope, and should
>not be tied narrowly to a special-purpose protocol's type-space (&
>conventions etc., that do not apply universally).
>
>I guess I'm expressing some sort of support for Don's position...
>
>-- 
>Thomas Heide Clausen
>http://www.thomasclausen.org/
>
>"Any simple problem can be made insoluble if enough meetings are held to
> discuss it."
>   -- Mitchell's Law of Committees
>
>
>On 15 Jun 2012, at 01:43, Don Sturek <d.sturek@att.net> wrote:
>
>> All sounds fantastic but we don't have time for all these changes so
>>will
>> opt to use MLE as written using UDP ( at least for our application....)
>> 
>> Don
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/14/12 1:13 PM, "Michael Richardson" <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> In draft-kelsey-intarea-mesh-link-establishment-03.txt it says that
>>>  MLE messages are sent using UDP.
>>> 
>>> I want to suggest that MLE messages should be sent at least as IPv6
>>> ICMP messages. 
>>> 
>>> Further, I think that it could use the RPL type 155, and RPL would
>>> allocate a new "code" codepoint.
>>> 
>>> There would be some preference to have the general structure of MLE
>>> match that of RPL, but I think that this isn't particularly a strong
>>> requirement.   Allocating a new ICMP type code for MLE alone might be
>>> seen as excessive, but I can not speak for the folks in 6man.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>>> IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Roll mailing list
>>> Roll@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 6lowpan mailing list
>> 6lowpan@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowpan