Re: [Anima] RTGWG-chairs: slot for RTGWG@109 to present on GRASP ? (was: Re: draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 16 November 2020 06:02 UTC

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To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@futurewei.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org" <rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, =?UTF-8?B?6ZmI5Y+M6b6ZKCAwMDQxOTMzNSk=?= <chenshuanglong@huawei.com>, "anima-chairs@ietf.org" <anima-chairs@ietf.org>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "anima@ietf.org" <anima@ietf.org>, Guyunan <guyunan@huawei.com>, "rwilton@cisco.com" <rwilton@cisco.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
References: <20201110165724.GA42082@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <311b455e-977a-1c54-0d06-89c779f072c6@gmail.com> <831c7ecf-8afe-4d49-b213-8277f18d0221@Spark> <BY5PR13MB3048B40988990FE47ED1BF2CE1E80@BY5PR13MB3048.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <20201114094822.GA54726@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <80CE0EBD-8AAE-4F67-BAB8-3DA2724441DA@futurewei.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:01:55 +1300
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Subject: Re: [Anima] RTGWG-chairs: slot for RTGWG@109 to present on GRASP ? (was: Re: draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol
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If anyone is interested, there's a generic introduction to GRASP at
https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/GRASP-intro.pdf
(with a very small overlap with the slides from Toerless).

Regards
   Brian

On 16-Nov-20 12:23, Yingzhen Qu wrote:
> Hi Toerless,
> 
> Please double check your slides in the meeting materials and let me know if there is any problem.
> 
> Thanks,
> Yingzhen
> 
> On 11/14/20, 1:48 AM, "Toerless Eckert" <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> 
>     Slides uploaded via propose slide. Hope that worked...
> 
>     Cheers
>         Toerless
> 
>     On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 07:12:42PM +0000, Yingzhen Qu wrote:
>     > Hi Toerless,
>     > 
>     > We??ll provide you a 20-mins slot in RTGWG Wednesday session. Would you please provide some details/pointers about your presentation? I need to update the agenda with the info so people have time to read up.
>     > 
>     > Thanks,
>     > Yingzhen
>     > From: rtgwg <rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org>
>     > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 4:14 PM
>     > To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>de>, rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org <rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>rg>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>rg>, ??????( 00419335) <chenshuanglong@huawei.com>om>, anima-chairs@ietf.org <anima-chairs@ietf.org>rg>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>om>, anima@ietf.org <anima@ietf.org>rg>, Guyunan <guyunan@huawei.com>om>, rwilton@cisco.com <rwilton@cisco.com>om>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
>     > Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org <rtgwg@ietf.org>
>     > Subject: Re: RTGWG-chairs: slot for RTGWG@109 to present on GRASP ? (was: Re: draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol (was: Re: IETF 105 mic comments on draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol))
>     > Toerless,
>     > 
>     > We will provide a slot, most likely during the 2nd meeting.
>     > Please send an email to RTGWG with a short intro so people who might be interested have the time read up.
>     > 
>     > Thanks!
>     > 
>     > Cheers,
>     > Jeff
>     > On Nov 10, 2020, 11:48 AM -0800, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>om>, wrote:
>     > 
>     > I'd like to underline what Toerless said. I looked at the two use casess
>     > in the protocol-assisted-protocol draft and they seem very easy to
>     > map onto GRASP. I don't really have time before the meeting to do
>     > that but they are certainly use cases we could have included in the
>     > original use case BOF that led to ANIMA.
>     > 
>     > Regards
>     > Brian Carpenter
>     > 
>     > On 11-Nov-20 05:57, Toerless Eckert wrote:
>     > 
>     > In followup to the discuss on draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol:
>     > 
>     > Checking RTGWG agenda, it seems you might still have time available,
>     > so if you are interested, i would be happy to whip up a few slides
>     > to five an overview of GRASP and how we imagine it to be useable
>     > to automate operational workflows for various services, including
>     > routing protocols.
>     > 
>     > Cheers
>     > Toerless
>     > 
>     > In-Reply-To: <20201110165235.GA17445@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
>     > 
>     > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 05:52:35PM +0100, Toerless Eckert wrote:
>     > 
>     > I see subject draft is again on the agenda of RTGWG'109 and the authors also asked
>     > for a slot to present to ANIMA (which we would be happy to have, time permitting).
>     > 
>     > Some thoughts as contributor, maybe ANIMA chair:
>     > 
>     > Reading the draft it looks like a reinvention of the ANIMA GRASP protocol
>     > that we finished almost 3 years ago, but without many of the mechanisms
>     > that make GRASP a well reuseable, easily extensible protocol. So i wonder
>     > why we would want to also do another more imited protocol for the same
>     > goals.
>     > 
>     > On the mike RTGWG @IETF105, interest was raised to see a more comprehensive
>     > signalling enxchange example. Version 03 of the document seems to have
>     > expanded the BGP example a bit, but still not comprehensive enough for me
>     > to understand if/how this approach would ultimately work.
>     > 
>     > I would like to encourage the authors to concentrate on fully specifying
>     > intended use-cases - ideally by simply specifying the use-case as
>     > solution using GRASP (we call this GRASP objectives). I am sure
>     > ANIMA participants (including me) would be happy to help explaining how
>     > to specify such a protocol on top of GRASP once we understand the use-case.
>     > 
>     > Cheers
>     > Toerless
>     > 
>     > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:02:31AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
>     > 
>     > To repeat my comments from the microphone regarding this draft:
>     > 
>     > We already have per-protocol operational and configuration state via the
>     > IETF yang models for a given protocol.
>     > 
>     > We also have mechanisms to fetch operational state for such protocols; e.g.
>     > netconf and restconf.
>     > 
>     > Rather than inventing a new mechanism to do troubleshooting for a protocol,
>     > I'd suggest it makes better sense to augment existing IETF yang models to
>     > include RPCs for interacting with troubleshooting for that protocol.
>     > 
>     > -- Jeff
>     > 
>     > _______________________________________________
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>     > --
>     > ---
>     > tte@cs.fau.de
>     > 
> 
>     -- 
>     ---
>     tte@cs.fau.de
>