Re: [apps-discuss] Multipart/report, draft-kucherawy-rfc3462bis-01.txt

Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Thu, 28 July 2011 21:54 UTC

Return-Path: <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8B411E812A for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:54:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.522
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGDmZ27m+cag for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [66.59.230.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B6811E80AC for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O46NM6OGWG010DO6@mauve.mrochek.com> for apps-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:53:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O46LRD9W9C00RCTX@mauve.mrochek.com>; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Message-id: <01O46NM4E0WS00RCTX@mauve.mrochek.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:40:56 -0700
From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:22:46 -0400" <4E31A8F6.6060304@dcrocker.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; Format="flowed"
References: <20110727052622.18893.75906.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4E3013C8.7060203@tana.it> <F5833273385BB34F99288B3648C4F06F13512DF461@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <01O45CD1RC5O00RCTX@mauve.mrochek.com> <F5833273385BB34F99288B3648C4F06F13512DF48D@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <F5833273385BB34F99288B3648C4F06F13512DF493@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <01O46FWTC6N600VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E31A8F6.6060304@dcrocker.net>
To: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net>
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1311889957; bh=0sHigJ2cYQ9PzWEDX0H5DV7ncnXi2n/n4R5CB+EW3/U=; h=Cc:Message-id:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:MIME-version: Content-type:References:To; b=VAt44qA+8kcMu92CUgKGp8dXKz1M0f4tnCfn1u01xdogDjWf3PoHyzVycRRYe+/y9 hZ7k5t4ZEpzwC7Tmi3qCRxydrCipQe/ms/BXTdm4gKjDxIZKBtozfkFj6tzVPqc5MH 5JSTeYMGplNNTZbuUcInIrYopvGtRf4HN+KyqxzI=
Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Multipart/report, draft-kucherawy-rfc3462bis-01.txt
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:54:14 -0000

> On 7/28/2011 2:10 PM, Ned Freed wrote:
> >> ...and RFC3464 is showing updated by two other documents.  I imagine we'd
> >> have to sort out how to resolve all of that, so maybe this is a more
> >> heavyweight change than I'd hoped.
> >
> > I have to ask: So what? So let's say we have to do a 3462bis that resets
> > things to proposed.
> >
> > Why is this a big deal? We do it, six months later we advance the
> > specification back to draft - this should be easy since we only need
> > to review the consequences, if any, of the change we're making.


> The transaction cost of having an additional process through the IETF/IESG is
> never trivial.

Actually, I can point at any number of cases where it was pretty painless. In
particular, small revisions to existing widely deployed standards seem to fare
pretty well. Of course there are exceptions, like the revision to the Sieve
base spec, where someone gets a hair up their butt and files a totally
inappropriate DISCUSS, but one things for sure: Doing nothing guarantees
nothing will be done.

> I know you know this; I don't know why you think it's a small deal.

Perhaps because it *should* be a small deal. And to the extent it isn't, I'm
not sure I see the value in trying to accomodate brokenness.

				Ned