Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- considered harmful
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Thu, 09 May 2019 11:02 UTC
Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF8012001B; Thu, 9 May 2019 04:02:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K9sc4MXwPu5T; Thu, 9 May 2019 04:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A0F9120096; Thu, 9 May 2019 04:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.217.106] (p54A6CC75.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.204.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4509Qg747yzyYW; Thu, 9 May 2019 13:02:03 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\))
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <E7769BC3-472E-4161-85C9-E534C9E393EC@cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 13:02:06 +0200
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, "iab@iab.org" <iab@iab.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 579092524.598793-07e700d4ae0b5aedccf8ebd69cc2d082
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <161AB266-8DFE-49BF-8045-412A3844C9EF@tzi.org>
References: <F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C89F024CD3@MISOUT7MSGUSRDE.ITServices.sbc.com> <CALaySJJDHg5j9Z7+noS=YXoNROqdsbJ6coEECtLtbJ6fWJ3xsQ@mail.gmail.com> <DBD4837F-299B-497C-8922-AFF858B06C0F@strayalpha.com> <EDB037CE-F16A-4392-B36C-F44E30F29753@tzi.org> <E7769BC3-472E-4161-85C9-E534C9E393EC@cisco.com>
To: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/mzIlgaoI7e-3zzeh2-GqbjzIGCg>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- considered harmful
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 11:02:10 -0000
On May 9, 2019, at 11:34, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote: > > technical deficit I think we were discussing Technical Debt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt The term is widely used to describe code bases in software development that, through lack of oversight, have acquired properties that make them hard to move forward (or even fix). It doesn’t quite transfer to protocols, because here it is often different parties that incur the debt and that ultimately have to pay it up. A protocol that has turned into soup has acquired technical debt. It is very hard to pay back that debt: that requires coordinated effort throughout the ecosystem. It occasionally can be done, but these are the hero stories of our time. Grüße, Carsten
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Barry Leiba
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Barry Leiba
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Warren Kumari
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Tony Li
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Adam Roach
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Salz, Rich
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Adam Roach
- Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Christian Huitema
- Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Matthew Kerwin
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Christian Huitema
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Mark Andrews
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Paul Wouters
- Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Randy Bush
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Jari Arkko
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… John C Klensin
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Eliot Lear
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Eliot Lear
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henry S. Thompson