Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time
Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> Tue, 28 March 2017 23:11 UTC
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To: "Manger, James" <James.H.Manger@team.telstra.com>, "art@ietf.org" <art@ietf.org>, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
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Cc: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>, Philip Homburg <pch-ietf-art@u-1.phicoh.com>
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 16:11:27 -0700
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Subject: Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time
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On 3/28/2017 3:56 PM, Manger, James wrote: >>> leap second smearing >> We certainly cannot even consider standardizing a conversion (even if that >> were our purview) between time scales that include smearing until there >> are smearing standards. > It looks like the most valuable IETF contribution would be standardizing one smearing scheme (& getting Google, Java, ... to agree to it). Ick. IMO, the most valuable contribution is to recommend the use of TAI or UTC, IMO. > >> A key point in this doc is that smearing makes things horribly worse, >> not better in any way, except to delude users into thinking otherwise. > Given that a well-defined smearing scheme allows a simple and precise mapping to UTC, it is hard to see how that can be "horribly worse". Even if we say that all interval calculations and conversions are equally messy or not, why introduce yet another standard when we already have TAI and UTC? > Smearing moves the complexity of solar-vs-atomic-vs-civic time and the resultant leap seconds to a place where a huge number of systems can correctly handle that complexity by "doing nothing", while systems that care if time intervals can be 0.001% wrong (if 24hr is the smear standard) can still be more precise by making well-defined adjustments. Doing nothing means smeared times are always wrong. When that smeared time corresponds to a day or year change in another time zone, you've really messed things up. That means doing nothing either means your wrong or you're really wrong. The only solution is to convert out of the smear back to UTC, but then why bother smearing at all? Joe
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Dale R. Worley
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Philip Homburg
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Dale R. Worley
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Michael Thornburgh
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch John Hawkinson
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch
- Re: [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Steve Allen
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Philip Homburg
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Michael Thornburgh
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Manger, James
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Philip Homburg
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Philip Homburg
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Philip Homburg
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Philip Homburg
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: [art] Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- [art] summary of updates - draft-time-touch Joe Touch