Re: [bcause] [Bcause] interest and scope?

[David Allan I <[e-mail]>]

Hi Miao

 

You are assuming a particular way of working when asserting your concern.  If all that is needed is additional information elements and the protocol semantics are effectively complete for our purposes, your concern would be significantly mitigated.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

From: bcause <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Miaofuyou (Miao Fuyou)
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 10:15 AM
To: eduard.metz=[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [bcause] [Bcause] interest and scope?

 

It really dpends on how much of PFCP could be reused. There are fundemental differences between mobile use case and BNG. For example, layer 2 (pppoe) vs. layer 3 (GTP) access, reliability model, accounting model. There should be thorough analysis, which is not available yet. 

My prediction is, even it can be done with PFCP, it will take long time to get the spec out. Besides technical problems to solve, spec definition with PFCP has to depend on liaison (slow in nature) between IETF and 3GPP, to get work really done finally in 3GPP. 3GPP is currently focusing on 5G spec, I suspect it be willing/able to do it with extra bandwidth.

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收件人：[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>  <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> >;[e-mail] <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> >

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时间：2019-03-26 09:47:34

主 题：Re: [bcause] [Bcause] interest and scope?

 

 

Not sure I understand this, would in this case introducing PCFP for CUPS (FN only) be more expensive than introducing a new protocol for CUPS (FN only)?

 

cheers,

               Eduard

 

 

From: bcause <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> > On Behalf Of Greg Mirsky
Sent: maandag 25 maart 2019 20:43
To: Gregory Dalle ([e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> ) <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> >
Cc: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> ; Martin Vigoureux <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> >
Subject: Re: [bcause] [Bcause] interest and scope?

 

Hi Greg D.,

thank you for consideration. The situation for the FN-only operators, as I understand it, is complicated by the insistence that only PFCP-based solution to CUPS will likely be standardized. As I have explained,  for operator that has it's fixed and mobile networks operated separately introduction of the new protocol, PFCP in this case, will result in the increased OPEX. I would consider that as no-starer offer from any vendor.

 

Regards, 

Greg M

 

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 20:23 Gregory Dalle <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> > wrote:

Hi Greg M,

 

Commenting back on: “we have heard from several operators that they are interested only in FN (fixed network) DBNG CUPS (….) I don't think that requests by these operators should be ignored”.

 

>From what I can track on this mailing list:

A.	2 operators said they are interested only in fixed access BNG
B.	5 operators said they don’t want to restrict the protocol discussion to fixed access only 

 

The good news is that these 2 operators are not ignored, as the goal is  provide a superset that includes support for basic TR178 BNG as they want.

 

Thanks,

Greg D

 

From: bcause <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> > On Behalf Of Greg Mirsky
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 9:20 AM
To: Vigoureux, Martin (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> >
Cc: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> 
Subject: Re: [bcause] [Bcause] interest and scope?

 

Hi Martin, et al.,

I'd not discuss whether PFCP can be extended to suit yet undocumented DBNG CUPS requirements without changes to its architecture. Many stated that they believe that that is achievable and I'm not to argue with what people believe or don't believe in. I just want to point out that we have heard from several operators that they are interested only in FN (fixed network) DBNG CUPS. I interpret that these operators have and want to keep their fixed and mobile networks operated separately. And even though PFCP may be already is familiar to the operations team that manages their mobile network, introducing the new protocol into the operation of the fixed network will increase their operational cost. More so, operators that are not looking to introduce hybrid access or 5G FMC at any time soon may have a preference on which protocol selection as that is the reflection of their operational model. I don't think that requests by these operators should be ignored and the answer given by SDOs include only PFCP-based DBNG CUPS. 

I've participated in the discussion and contributed to the charter. The charter intended to work on FN-only DBNG CUPS first and deliver results quickly. Adding hybrid access and 5G FMC could be discussed later, including, based on findings by experts at BBF.

 

Regards,

Greg

 

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 2:22 PM Vigoureux, Martin (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> > wrote:

Hello,

as you might know, the RTGWG has hosted, for some time now, a set of 
documents that relate to the separation of the user plane and control 
plane of Broadband Network Gateways.
These documents can be found at 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/rtgwg/documents/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_group_rtgwg_documents_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=VhX0NAIO1d7yQxdURKFPY59GAxttnQcfkn45tfRnREs&m=S-4EDvyPmus0NS5LXfp-Ms9zGC_m8iVOllO5lcwmVo0&s=96SauSW0hDod15fcQ8L7ylDy5HchcDuklDH6996dPic&e=>  and start with 
draft-cuspdt-* or draft-wadhwa-*

Please read them if you haven't already.

Recently, a group of persons has worked together and produced few 
paragraphs in support of their willingness to see a working group on 
this topic formed.

Considering this, I am sharing this text with the IETF community in 
order to evaluate
* the wider interest in, and willingness to work on, this topic,
* the appropriateness of creating a focussed and short-lived working 
group (as opposed to continuing in rtgwg).
To that effect, please read and comment on the text further down, it is 
here for being debated.
As a matter of clarification: me sharing it, instead of the authors 
doing it, does not carry any special meaning.

Important note: this topic has its roots in BroadBand Forum (BBF) with 
which IETF has exchanged few liaisons on the topic recently. These are 
important reads:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1619/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_liaison_1619_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=VhX0NAIO1d7yQxdURKFPY59GAxttnQcfkn45tfRnREs&m=S-4EDvyPmus0NS5LXfp-Ms9zGC_m8iVOllO5lcwmVo0&s=WR5EeaTa7vVKvnvgUSwSif_tFMJATrrdUp85D9Wauww&e=> 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1615/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_liaison_1615_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=VhX0NAIO1d7yQxdURKFPY59GAxttnQcfkn45tfRnREs&m=S-4EDvyPmus0NS5LXfp-Ms9zGC_m8iVOllO5lcwmVo0&s=0siKbwwdh2W6FBBMHKJid3k-SaVYNP1bfqYkVAZMWWU&e=> 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1600/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_liaison_1600_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=VhX0NAIO1d7yQxdURKFPY59GAxttnQcfkn45tfRnREs&m=S-4EDvyPmus0NS5LXfp-Ms9zGC_m8iVOllO5lcwmVo0&s=ntY5jLiyuv6zQcLI7sHo0U-_oSajcmPcqdSQViQ7FAY&e=> 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1566/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_liaison_1566_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=VhX0NAIO1d7yQxdURKFPY59GAxttnQcfkn45tfRnREs&m=S-4EDvyPmus0NS5LXfp-Ms9zGC_m8iVOllO5lcwmVo0&s=8AnBB1mLQepiil0dgmBKNL1NDtxWktzl2IOEZ9XXNyI&e=> 


---
Current Broadband Network Gateways (BNGs) that terminate residential 
broadband subscribers at the edge of service provider networks run as an 
integrated system where both the subscriber management control plane and 
traffic forwarding user plane are combined in a single system. In a 
large network, where the subscriber density is high, it is better to 
distribute and locate BNG systems closer to the subscribers, especially 
when the content caches are distributed to reduce backhaul costs and 
latency. In this scenario, as the BNG footprint grows, the subscriber 
management control points also proliferate, increasing operational 
complexity. This trend motivates the broadband network access industry 
to adopt new architectures that take advantage of the increasing ability 
to disaggregate and virtualize appropriate network access functions. 
Additional benefits can be realized by separating subscriber management 
control plane (CP) and traffic forwarding user plane (UP) for BNGs 
(referred to as Control and User Plane Separation (CUPS)). That 
simplifies operations, provides independent location, and scaling for CP 
and UP functions. A single CP function, running as a centralized VNF, 
can control and manage multiple UP instances, which may be distributed 
and separated from the CP via a multi-hop L2 or L3 network.  CUPS 
requires protocols for communication between CP and UP instances: from 
the CP to the UP to create and manage subscriber state instances and 
from the UP to the CP to handle relevant solicited or unsolicited events.

The proposed Working Group is a narrowly scoped WG tasked to specify 
communication protocol(s) between the CP and UP of a BNG, a network 
element whose functions are defined by BBF. A BNG can deliver broadband 
services to subscriber over wireline access or over multiple access 
types to accommodate different deployments. The goal of the WG is to 
define protocol(s) for CUPS that may support multiple deployment 
scenarios for the BNG.

The scope of the work covers protocol requirements, specification of the 
communications protocol, the information elements to be transferred with 
that protocol, and YANG data model(s) for Operations and Management as 
well as security, operational, and transport considerations.
---


Thank you
Martin
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