Re: [bfcpbis] AUTH48 [JM]: RFC 8855 <draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis-16.txt> NOW AVAILABLE

"Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com> Mon, 14 September 2020 23:20 UTC

Return-Path: <eckelcu@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98C93A0BF9; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=TyklDsGr; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=kXz0CgIS
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7kfZPrdZ1UJS; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13FD23A0BED; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4168; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1600125653; x=1601335253; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=YItLYouzHM/gFoJ53epzba58zY6fRRzcV9/4JCVUSjk=; b=TyklDsGr3mjTC3H2r8cod4sx7bRBhXUD9ZFSXRMUmkQFFdnfh668N7Id TgUmcdf4KKbm/7jmKUz3n0ox6DHgq8vjUlLvOMhRiuZDDf4o1wAB4aD8O VMoRsqvejTa9dRcd3rbCeSQ/WcGp6q6PVSs7+JOAv+gC6oLgyxc0YYYfe E=;
IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AbiEZMx8wyrMNYf9uRHGN82YQeigqvan1NQcJ65?= =?us-ascii?q?0hzqhDabmn44+7ZRaN5PhxghnOR4qIo/5Hiu+DtafmVCRA5Juaq3kNfdRKUA?= =?us-ascii?q?NNksQZmQEsQavnQU32JfLndWo2ScJFUlI2/nynPw5SAsmtL1HXq2e5uDgVHB?= =?us-ascii?q?i3PAFpJ+PzT4jVicn/1+2795DJJQtSgz/oarJpJxLwpgLU5cQ=3D?=
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DzBwBO+V9f/40NJK1gHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgU+BUikoB4FJLyyBMIMJg0YDjUkmhSmTSYFCgREDVQsBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?NAQEtAgQBAQ+EPAIXghECJDgTAgMBAQsBAQUBAQECAQYEbYVcAQuFcwEBAQM?= =?us-ascii?q?SEREMAQEpDgEPAgEIGAICJgICAjAVEAIEDgUigwSCTAMuAatAAoE5iGF2gTK?= =?us-ascii?q?DAQEBBYU7GIIQCYEOKoJxglxLQoZSG4IAgREnDBCCTT6BBIMEARIBIReDADO?= =?us-ascii?q?CLZA4gjIBPKNjCoJlmj0DHoMJiXWEGI9WgViRBoFxmUmBR4JiAgQCBAUCDgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BBYFrI2dwcBVlAYI+UBcCDY4fDAwLgQIBCIJDilZ0NwIGAQkBAQMJfI9UAQE?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,427,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="541821529"
Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 14 Sep 2020 23:20:52 +0000
Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 08ENKp5o015669 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:20:52 GMT
Received: from xhs-aln-002.cisco.com (173.37.135.119) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:20:51 -0500
Received: from xhs-aln-002.cisco.com (173.37.135.119) by xhs-aln-002.cisco.com (173.37.135.119) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:20:51 -0500
Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (173.37.151.57) by xhs-aln-002.cisco.com (173.37.135.119) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:20:51 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=E/zfHlJhdmZrhpKI4PK9SfoRUAOxx4tAqiX8/UmzfZ8ng+FAK5ZIzLP6iyXnnO5jtmu/8Th4cgtsKXiBL5DW+8mUVhyQ2dKp7rirA48ahmntax/6qkg5dUqgWx1ThcRqGwtYco3klA14BhOuGjwpsXtxVWdWAWUutGgXlY1X1n9B9Xais3mB+nGdEIZebrSGdTfYspUygkyBCD4oMfv6OEQzUsF56srqfYvWTbJ5t8aYCjULa86OQ076szDxR9UCGTx/K+XMxpuP8dXR8Slaret+AfcdzMnlnEpCZUy68ckhEUUd0w1krI7SohD8TZfZTarkNyzkGhIgqjK2Ck6m+A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=YItLYouzHM/gFoJ53epzba58zY6fRRzcV9/4JCVUSjk=; b=IvatN38eErM93PrCQ1wOCcej95qU57oLBNWveO+mQIk7nGTBwwNVgQ5dAKiH1HZhsieFnIgEcGC6EIQ30cthEfvJIGqrkz3WbtbpvSWj8aFFzKEpx09jqyfCyL/ZEEUyB52m+bduVuyRXkNIUNkp+3CvmPud5Mo8bL8yaczVUVUl0+6rTPzcjPjQdGzwP3SaSl/H6Us3pESro+25H1kuH+SN0YcYFrZpxBy/aGVf7APrNV3KYmmnTX7wMPbxtbvNZEh9l1OyWrhRy3BiKEBrP55D3MO+oOObVisupFvhWIFT/MBWtiKJT2fYtmTM1Sipb/HB9YFOvREyHDxBceRJSg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=YItLYouzHM/gFoJ53epzba58zY6fRRzcV9/4JCVUSjk=; b=kXz0CgISb5ikCM6Df/cweyMe2tuu7jH0f4HHSzpb5XizTJjIjLl+El8Gz4zXdT9wX26CQPwv45maIrJ5QrQN5RPe0AfbC6b89WAzltgBqjg8DZ+gygOBcir3QWrgCTvfle1kGDDO1YNl6+2o7V0rmI6NB6Z6iPFIdTTivpUb9YE=
Received: from BYAPR11MB3237.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:1e::19) by BYAPR11MB3413.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:8c::29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3370.16; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:20:50 +0000
Received: from BYAPR11MB3237.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d43b:cd64:b100:84b5]) by BYAPR11MB3237.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d43b:cd64:b100:84b5%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3370.019; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:20:50 +0000
From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
To: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>
CC: RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "bfcpbis-ads@ietf.org" <bfcpbis-ads@ietf.org>, "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" <bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org>, "mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com" <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com>, "tom@kristensen.larvik.no" <tom@kristensen.larvik.no>, "gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com" <gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com>, "Jean Mahoney" <jmahoney@amsl.com>, "jo@comnet.tkk.fi" <jo@comnet.tkk.fi>, "Keith Drage" <drageke@ntlworld.com>
Thread-Topic: AUTH48 [JM]: RFC 8855 <draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis-16.txt> NOW AVAILABLE
Thread-Index: AQHWIqViT1RAXKn/9EqC4786COJ18aiZBvMAgBhveoCAAOmHgIAAkKiAgAAuaICAtgG1gA==
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:20:49 +0000
Message-ID: <089754DF-62D6-4544-9B9D-FA3DD18C5F57@cisco.com>
References: <20200505062106.40196F4072C@rfc-editor.org> <20200505062634.GA22852@rfc-editor.org> <90116eda-0692-e727-8901-98aeeb578e6e@amsl.com> <FFB537B8-6FD4-4D8C-AC4A-9DB4CC9411DE@cisco.com> <09c10dfd-9d48-49b7-764b-a41923c90186@amsl.com> <45c39325-5f5b-6161-304e-91beae81dd20@ntlworld.com>
In-Reply-To: <45c39325-5f5b-6161-304e-91beae81dd20@ntlworld.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.40.20081000
authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [2601:647:4401:e580:784e:9c6f:e20c:44e9]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a6213e86-3264-4dc8-8f43-08d85904d15c
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB3413:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR11MB341321D64C1AD8A04793DD10B2230@BYAPR11MB3413.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: bEimrIvww2lb+J/n/a2j3SPtjVssJ04d2BDpYU8gRGI4VMa4DXit1NnFtJje2ithMycMhNSYM1Y89BNmfjui2lXV+98M/geCpiwEvbxLjxE5v+ClfhmrBs28T+bG7KVPLrgZonROPyqnxhsjylK390Ra+1oGGAAZEXfeXDI/KH6mztoL/4JfeGYBzuyy61d6d4rQc/fUiZw0xrBB87nab4gDUnkn54YvxTXUhEnOYJVBiQdt2bpxMvmw/ULATbbf59l/Zog143aPrthBWr0qGmHSK2xCEKBSwzMNFCiDvjW/pOHpH2dciA6j58LwsQZVGWDS+620OqLq8WBvEkUBAw==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BYAPR11MB3237.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(39860400002)(376002)(136003)(346002)(366004)(396003)(6512007)(2906002)(83380400001)(186003)(8936002)(71200400001)(4326008)(86362001)(478600001)(8676002)(53546011)(316002)(6916009)(76116006)(36756003)(6506007)(5660300002)(54906003)(6486002)(33656002)(2616005)(66446008)(66556008)(66476007)(66946007)(64756008)(7416002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <181228FD41B9344E86FF5409677E2A9E@namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR11MB3237.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a6213e86-3264-4dc8-8f43-08d85904d15c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Sep 2020 23:20:49.9131 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 0ifWAtUgHigOP/oLcOoyPKsD7njHONJ8kQbPTytGFA06zHLeEQcnbvYyqH2Ps1S4t8QxU+mN46HIurybjqDrLw==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3413
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bfcpbis/YYYoELDQQ-sK2fIg6JRsPcWA1jk>
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:24:23 -0700
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] AUTH48 [JM]: RFC 8855 <draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis-16.txt> NOW AVAILABLE
X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list <bfcpbis.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bfcpbis>, <mailto:bfcpbis-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bfcpbis/>
List-Post: <mailto:bfcpbis@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bfcpbis-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bfcpbis>, <mailto:bfcpbis-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:20:55 -0000

Hello BFCP working group,

It has been a long time since our last email discussion. We in nearing the end of AUTH-48 for this draft, but there is an issue raised that needs to be addressed before we move forward. The email thread below provides the background. A proposal to the working group for resolving this is to:

1) maintain the reference to RFC5389/STUN rather than replace it with a reference to RFC 8489
2) make the reference to RFC 5389/STUN an informative reference as is already done for RFC 5245/ICE

Please share with the working group whether you accept this proposal or have an alternate proposal to share.
Your response either way is greatly appreciated and helpful for establishing working group consensus and moving the draft forward.

Thanks,
Charles

On 5/21/20, 1:55 PM, "Keith Drage" <drageke@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    I do note that the normative requirement is at SHOULD strength.

    However there are no statements that support an implementor to decide 
    under what conditions the requirement can be ignored, or the 
    consequences of ignoring, one or other of which should really be there.

    The lack of that information does not help in trying to evaluate the 
    consequences of updating the reference, versus leaving the reference as 
    it is - note that there is a risk both ways.

    The quick review I did, resulted in my feeling that the upgrade would be 
    OK, but I am not an expert in that area. Certainly I think either way it 
    should go to the WG for a quick review.

    Keith

    On 21/05/2020 19:09, Jean Mahoney wrote:
    > Hi Charles,
    >
    > On 5/21/20 11:31 AM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote:
    >> Hi Jean,
    >>
    >> I am more comfortable sticking with RFC 5389 at this point in time.
    >
    >
    > Ack.
    >
    >
    >> That said, I know that in another thread Christer made the point of 
    >> being consistent across the cluster in terms of referencing RFC 5389 
    >> vs. RFC 8489. If the decision is for the cluster switch to RFC 8489, 
    >> we can consider that. However, I think we would need to take it back 
    >> to the working group to see if there are any issues because I do not 
    >> believe the working group was not tracking this update and did not 
    >> anticipate its publication.
    >
    >
    > FWIW, so far, the one C238 document that has updated their STUN 
    > reference to RFC 8489 has an informative ref to it, not a normative one.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > RFC Editor/jm
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> Charles
    >>
    >> On 5/20/20, 12:36 PM, "Jean Mahoney" <jmahoney@amsl.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>      Authors,
    >>
    >>      We note that this document has a normative reference to RFC 5389 
    >> (STUN),
    >>      which was obsoleted just recently by RFC 8489.  Do you wish to 
    >> update
    >>      this reference to RFC 8489?
    >>
    >>      Thanks!
    >>
    >>      RFC Editor/jm
    >>
    >>