Re: [bmwg] bmwg Digest, Vol 227, Issue 1

[Warren Kumari <[e-mail]>]

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 10:36 AM, Sudhin <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi Warren,
>
> The comments are addressed in the new version, as I stated in the email
> due to pandemic and lock down things could not progress. Now we are
> committed to complete it. Please see the answers inline.
>


You appear to have some obnoxious software which is replacing things that
look like URLs with links to other things — for example, the above displays
as 'https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest/ballot/
<http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker%2Eietf%2Eorg%2Fdoc%2Fdraft%2Dietf%2Dbmwg%2Devpntest%2Fballot%2F&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=1709a22de7821dfb21b42c229719dea79f5bcc01&rdf=VXMGcQJhUD1SZlZsCjMKP1JiUToONw==>'
, but your mail client has replaced it with '<a href=3D"//lin=
ks.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker%2Eietf%2Eorg%=
2Fdoc%2Fdraft%2Dietf%2Dbmwg%2Devpntest%2Fballot%2F&amp;isImage=3D0&amp;Bloc=
kImage=3D0&amp;rediffng=3D0&amp;rogue=3D1709a22de7821dfb21b42c229719dea79f5=
bcc01&amp;rdf=3DVXMGcQJhUD1SZlZsCjMKP1JiUToONw=3D=3D" rel=3D"external" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest/bal=
lot/</a>).&nbsp;</div>'

I'm assuming that you do no know this is happening….




Regards,
> Sudhin
>
> From: Warren Kumari <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:54:14
> To: Sudhin <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [bmwg] bmwg Digest, Vol 227, Issue 1
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 11:25 PM, Sudhin <sudhinjacob=40rediffmail.com@
> dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>> I think there are no opposition, then we need to forward this. We put a
>> lot of effort over a period of time and went through multiple votings.
>> Due to pandemic there was an halt beyond our control.
>>  Now we are back and overcome the obstacles. It needs to be put back in
>> queue like earlier.
>>
>
>
> Only if the WG explicitly supports progressing the document.
>
> It did not go through "multiple votings" - it had a WGLC, IETF LC and IESG
> eval.
>


Sudhin>>> it went through 2 LC before putting to IESG.
>


That really doesn't help support your case — it has a WGLC on 07 December
2018, which received no feedback -
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/m4F3ElbqCmTOSQG5x-C5ClvhMvc/

It then had a 2nd WGLC on 15 April 2019 which did get some support:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/nln7lye93Fvc0qNMYMFrQGYou9Y/

It then needed a 3rd and 4th WGLC to actually get it through the process.



> During the IESG eval it received 5 DISCUSS positions (https://datatracker.
> ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest/ballot/
> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker%2Eietf%2Eorg%2Fdoc%2Fdraft%2Dietf%2Dbmwg%2Devpntest%2Fballot%2F&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=1709a22de7821dfb21b42c229719dea79f5bcc01&rdf=VXMGcQJhUD1SZlZsCjMKP1JiUToONw==>
> ).
>
> We tried reaching out to the authors **multiple** times to get an update.
> A few of these are listed in the Datatracker history ( https://
> datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest/history/
> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker%2Eietf%2Eorg%2Fdoc%2Fdraft%2Dietf%2Dbmwg%2Devpntest%2Fhistory%2F&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=5ec8a7cf8e57431d151e84395299379051ebcfae&rdf=XngCdVAzB2pQZAc9AjtTZgU1VT4NNA==>
> - 2021-08-24, 2021-09-15, 2022-01-28), but there were many others as
> well, including mail from the chairs, asking people who worked at Juniper
> to poke internally, etc, and multiple emails to the WG:
>
> Sudhin>>> I didnt get any updates(possibly missed) . I informed the WG
> that mail id got change as I left Juniper.
>


I'll point out that your co-author (from whom we have only ever seen one
email -
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/FwsV1w8_SfODzdvzuluCOO6Ap_E/) is
still employed by Juniper.


https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/bxVZYdOb8WXf1HJ-b7MVApK3_LI/
<http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=https%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive%2Eietf%2Eorg%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fbmwg%2FbxVZYdOb8WXf1HJ%2Db7MVApK3%5FLI%2F&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=1b84aaf84957bafd0b20b2d4c3690437cdf1fae0&rdf=UHYGcQJhUD1caFdtBTwCNwU1AGtdZA==>https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/q_QpkXNK2YcNxMqix3EhrY-3O0w/
<http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=https%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive%2Eietf%2Eorg%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fbmwg%2Fq%5FQpkXNK2YcNxMqix3EhrY%2D3O0w%2F&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=3e5be3b2492659ab4627d176df1b0914ac2fe2fa&rdf=BSMAdwRnXjMCNlBqBj8GMwAwUToKMw==>
>
> We even asked in the WG for volunteers to take over:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/q_QpkXNK2YcNxMqix3EhrY-3O0w/
> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=https%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive%2Eietf%2Eorg%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fbmwg%2Fq%5FQpkXNK2YcNxMqix3EhrY%2D3O0w%2F&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=3e5be3b2492659ab4627d176df1b0914ac2fe2fa&rdf=V3EHcANgXjMBNQM5UGlWYwIyXjUIMQ==>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUZKhuqa5BY&t=411s
> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmUZKhuqa5BY%26amp%3Bt%3D411s&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=eff0a96ef8ee6faea5ae1c44394a78c3dfdaebb3&rdf=VXMIf1MwVTgBNQM5VG0KPwExB2xfZg==>
>
> The chairs and I repeatedly asked the WG for volunteers to pick up the
> document and progress it — but no-one did. This implies that the WG did not
> strongly want to progress it.
>
> It has been 800 days (>2years, 2 months) since IESG Eval — it would need
> at the minimum another WGLC, IETF LC and IESG Eval….
>
> Without strong evidence of interest from the WG (including strong support
> during WGLC), and a strong commitment from the authors to quickly and
> comprehensively address all comments, I cannot progress the document.
>


I have yet to see the above.

I also decided to spot-check the changes to address the IESG ballots, and
chose one of Zahed's discuss points:
"Section 3.10: what is the exit criteria of this test? how do we know the
test was successful?"
and comments:
"Section 4.9 : "Then increment the scale of N by 5% of N till the limit is
reached." Please clarify if the increment steps always 5% of initial value
or N or N = N+5% of N.". at random.
It doesn't look like you addressed either of these. Again, this was the
first 2 (random) things I checked.

IETF WG time is valuable, as it IETF LC, IESG and RFC Editor time. Unless
there is strong consensus to progress a document, I'm not willing to spend
valuable IETF resources on it.

Sarah asked for WG show of support on September 11th -
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/-HJlk1-Nq-M89mLhfDdd0a11ndg/ and
then a followup yesterday extending this -
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/2zQoI_VrW22hxt1sKWCSO4NGTso/

I'm sorry that there was a pandemic and lockdown (although I must admit I
cannot figure out why that prevents work on a document), but the WG and
chairs have been more than accommodating…

W



> W
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sudhin
>>
>> From: [e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Sent: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 00:30:06
>> To: [e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Subject: bmwg Digest, Vol 227, Issue 1
>>
>> Send bmwg mailing list submissions to
>>    [e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of bmwg digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Fwd:  I-D Action: draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest-11.txt
>>      ([e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 08:27:00 -0700
>> From: "[e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>" <
>> [e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>>
>> To: [e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Subject: [bmwg] Fwd:  I-D Action: draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest-11.txt
>> Message-ID: <[e-mail]
>> <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hello BMWG,
>>    My apologies for the late follow up - I thought I?d sent this note,
>> but cannot find it in my mailbox, so let me circle back.
>>
>>    The authors of the EVPN benchmarking work had previously shared an
>> adopted document with the working group. It was marked dead, due to an
>> inability to reach the authors (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/
>> bmwg/q_QpkXNK2YcNxMqix3EhrY-3O0w/
>> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2F%2F%2Flinks%2Erediff%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fred%2Ecgi%3Fred%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fmailarchive%252Eietf%252Eorg%252Farch%252Fmsg%252Fbmwg%252Fq%255FQpkXNK2YcNxMqix3EhrY%252D3O0w%252F%26amp%3Brediffng%3D0%26amp%3Brogue%3D3e5be3b2492659ab4627d176df1b0914ac2fe2fa%26amp%3Brdf%3DXngFclU2XjMHMwA6Bz4LPlNjB2xdZA%3D%3D&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=7d4e872a21ee6879799f5766ac6fe22b19db76b8&rdf=BSMAdwdkAm9UYFNpVm9TZlpqUDsPNg==>).
>> The authors would like to revive the draft. Given how much time has elapsed
>> since WGLC and IETF LC, our AD would like the working group to review and
>> confirm that it is still work we?d like to support. Please reply to this
>> email with a call for support, or lack of support. Let?s give this period 2
>> weeks - please indicate support/no support by September 25, 2023.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Sarah
>> BMWG Co-Chair
>>
>>
>> > Begin forwarded message:
>> >
>> > From: [e-mail]
>> <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>
>> > Subject: [bmwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest-11.txt
>> > Date: August 17, 2023 at 1:30:12 AM PDT
>> > To: <[e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>>
>> > Cc: [e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>
>> > Reply-To: [e-mail] <http://@mail/mailto:[e-mail]>
>> >
>> >
>> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> > directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Benchmarking
>> > Methodology (BMWG) WG of the IETF.
>> >
>> >   Title           : Benchmarking Methodology for EVPN and PBB-EVPN
>> >   Authors         : Sudhin Jacob
>> >                     Kishore Tiruveedhula
>> >   Filename        : draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest-11.txt
>> >   Pages           : 27
>> >   Date            : 2023-08-17
>> >
>> > Abstract:
>> >   This document defines methodologies for benchmarking EVPN and PBB-
>> >   EVPN performance.  EVPN is defined in RFC 7432, and is being deployed
>> >   in Service Provider networks.  Specifically, this document defines
>> >   the methodologies for benchmarking EVPN/PBB-EVPN convergence, data
>> >   plane performance, and control plane performance.
>> >
>> > The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
>> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest/
>> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2F%2F%2Flinks%2Erediff%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fred%2Ecgi%3Fred%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker%252Eietf%252Eorg%252Fdoc%252Fdraft%252Dietf%252Dbmwg%252Devpntest%252F%26amp%3Brediffng%3D0%26amp%3Brogue%3Da45150873323468c3c54cebdde4e2cca515f0323%26amp%3Brdf%3DAyVSJQBjUD1UYAE7V24DNgc3A2gBOA%3D%3D&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=37864f4c948daa7ef5cba3eb3fadfc9cab90059e&rdf=ACYAdwhrVThRZQA6Bj9RZAc3UzgAOQ==>
>> >
>> > There is also an htmlized version available at:
>> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest-11
>> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2F%2F%2Flinks%2Erediff%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fred%2Ecgi%3Fred%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker%252Eietf%252Eorg%252Fdoc%252Fhtml%252Fdraft%252Dietf%252Dbmwg%252Devpntest%252D11%26amp%3Brediffng%3D0%26amp%3Brogue%3Da83e9bcf25677d6f2e6661252b4099b47c5eef88%26amp%3Brdf%3DBSNVIlU2A24GMgc9BD1XYltrUToLMg%3D%3D&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=ef3afcfae44e519bce3b5b8d555677553f388829&rdf=XngFclU2XjMHMwA6Bz4LPlNjB2xdZA==>
>> >
>> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> > https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-bmwg-evpntest-11
>> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2F%2F%2Flinks%2Erediff%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fred%2Ecgi%3Fred%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fauthor%252Dtools%252Eietf%252Eorg%252Fiddiff%253Furl2%253Ddraft%252Dietf%252Dbmwg%252Devpntest%252D11%26amp%3Brediffng%3D0%26amp%3Brogue%3Dd014cf883c523c92c8285fd1536a147af267173e%26amp%3Brdf%3DX3kAdwJhBWgBNVxmADkANVZmAGtaYw%3D%3D&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=28a08dfe8f4136a37f59b1e7f655378b1866f35b&rdf=X3lRJghrUD1caFJoBD1XYlFhAGsBOA==>
>> >
>> > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org
>> <http:////links.rediff.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Frsync%2Eietf%2Eorg&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0&rogue=5ecee7588051afd4d9b0aefc85797894286c222b&rdf=V3FTJAhrB2oHM1VvAzoHMlpqBW4AOQ==>
>> ::internet-drafts
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > bmwg mailing list
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>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg
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