Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00
Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Tue, 22 February 2005 16:36 UTC
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:36:02 +0100
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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To: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00
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Cc: Geoffrey M Clemm <geoffrey.clemm@us.ibm.com>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>, CalDAV DevList <ietf-caldav@osafoundation.org>
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Jamie Lokier wrote: > Geoffrey M Clemm wrote: > >> > But you should always try to avoid accessing unknown resources, even >> > to query their capabilities: There are implementations where >> sending >> > OPTIONS to them will be interpreted as a POST or stateful GET :) >> >> I'm not sure what you mean by "avoid accessing unknown resources". >> The only way a client "knows" about a resource is by doing some >> discovery method on it such as OPTIONS. > > > No: the way a client knows about a resource is that something asks the > client to access the resource. > > For example, a WebDAV client accesses a resource because the user > tells the client to. The user is allowing the client to assume that > WebDAV methods are ok to try on the resource. You're making assumptions about the knowledge a user has that IMHO are simply questionable. For instance, a user my use IE to follow a hyperlink to an Office document, and Office will (under some circumstances) LOCK the document, and later PUT and UNLOCK it. At least 95% of the users will not be aware of what was going on technically. > A CalDAV or Atom client accesses a resource that it is told to access. > > In all cases, the client is told to try certain methods on certain > URLs, by the user (or other agent). > > If the user asks a client to try WebDAV methods on a resource that > they don't know it's safe to try WebDAV methods on, then they can > cause all sorts of havoc. If that causes havoc, that's because the server is broken (be it misconfigured or just buggy). > For example, some URLs will treat any method as form submission, even > OPTIONS, so users should never ask a client which uses OPTIONS to > access those URLs, because that is dangerous. See above. > There is simply no way for the client to "discover" whether a given > URL supports the behaviour it's been asked to do, without causing > potential harmful side effects. Jamie, lots of clients are doing this today. I'm not aware of any "havoc" causing this. > This is why the client has to assume the user gave it a URL with known > behaviour in the first place. > > This is why a client whose job is "add a member to a collection" may > _assume_ that it's ok to use POST for this, if POST is specified as > having the right behaviour _on that resource_. So what do I do if a have a resource that accepts HTML form posts, SOAP requests and ADDMEMBER-like semantics on the same URL? > The only technical reason why a new method would be required in HTTP > is if the message semantics were different. For example, POST is Of course. That's why they are defined to be different from POST. > ... Best regards, Julian -- <green/>bytes GmbH -- http://www.greenbytes.de -- tel:+492512807760
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Mark Baker
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Mark Baker
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Scott Lawrence
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Justin Chapweske
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Julian Reschke
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Jamie Lokier
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Julian Reschke
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Jeffrey Mogul
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Julian Reschke
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Jeffrey Mogul
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Scott Lawrence
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Scott Carr
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmembe… Julian Reschke
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Mark Baker
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Bernard Desruisseaux
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Geoffrey M Clemm
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Mark Baker
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Scott Lawrence
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Scott Lawrence
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Mark Baker
- [Ietf-caldav] Re: draft-reschke-http-addmember-00 Geoffrey M Clemm
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Scott Lawrence
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Scott Lawrence
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Lisa Dusseault
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Stefan Eissing
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Joe Gregorio
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Mark Baker
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Helge Hess
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmem… Cyrus Daboo
- [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: draft-reschke-http-addmember-… Julian Reschke