Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-requirements-05.txt
Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com> Tue, 17 September 2013 23:21 UTC
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:21:09 -0500
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From: Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com>
To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Cc: CLUE <clue@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-requirements-05.txt
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On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > Mary, > > > On 9/17/13 5:04 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > >> Yes. There are other requirements using the term site. If you look at >> the definition of "endpoint", there is the following statement: >> Endpoints can be anything from >> multiscreen/multicamera rooms to handheld devices. >> >> So, I think we are using site to refer explicitly/only to >> multiscreen/multicamera rooms. >> > > Are we? I think even then we are really talking about endpoints, but with > our design center biased towards multiscreen/multicamera rooms. > E.g., when we are doing "site switching", a CLUE compatible cell phone is > still going to be treated as a site, together with the telepresence "rooms" > in the session. > [MB] Actually, we don't define "site" in the CLUE framework either (and the word appears 89 times in the use cases). So, maybe we *should* define site and leave most of the requirements alone. I think the word conveys the concept well and I think we lose something if we change to endpoint in many cases, which we should do consistently if we propose to do so in the requirements document. [/MB] > > I'm not aware of *anything* that is specific to multiscreen/multicamera > endpoints. > > Maybe the easiest thing to do is to just >> add a parenthetical comment in that sentence like the following: >> >> Endpoints can be anything from >> multiscreen/multicamera rooms (referred to as "sites") to handheld >> devices. >> > > Wouldn't that confuse the definition of site switching? > > Thanks, > Paul > > > Then, I do think it is appropriate to change the word "site" in REQMT-12 >> to "endpoint" as the intent of the requirement should also to endpoints >> other than multiscreen/multicamera rooms. I think the use of "site" in >> the other requirements is okay. >> > > Mary. >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu >> <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>**> wrote: >> >> Mary, >> >> IIUC, you are proposing to make a change from "site" to "endpoint" >> in Reqmnt-12, and otherwise leave things alone? >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> >> On 9/17/13 2:06 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: >> >> Hi Christian, >> >> Thanks for taking the time to review this. Comments/responses >> below [MB]. >> >> Mary. >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Christian Groves >> <Christian.Groves@nteczone.com >> <mailto:Christian.Groves@**nteczone.com<Christian.Groves@nteczone.com> >> > >> <mailto:Christian.Groves@__nte**czone.com <http://nteczone.com> >> >> <mailto:Christian.Groves@**nteczone.com<Christian.Groves@nteczone.com> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Here are my comments to the WGLC: >> >> 1) Reqmt-1D - With regards to reqmt-1d: The solution MUST >> support a >> means to identify >> the extent of individual video >> captures in >> three dimensions. >> >> Did we decide whether this was with respect to a "plane of >> interest" >> in 3 dimensions? and/or a volume (i.e. incorporating a >> depth aspect) >> in 3 dimensions? It probably would be good to clarify this >> in the >> requirements. >> >> [MB] I don't know that this particular detail matters in the >> requirements document. [/MB] >> >> >> 2) General: At different places there are references to >> particular >> use cases. However this doesn't appear to used >> consistently. e.g. >> Regmt-9 regarding interoperability between endpoints using >> different >> numbers of streams makes references to the heterogeneous >> use case. >> The heterogeneous use cases mentions different bit rates etc, >> however Reqmts-8, 7 etc don't mention the use case? It >> seems to me >> that if we include references to use cases that we should >> be consistent. >> >> [MB] Not all requirements can be mapped directly to use cases - >> e.g., >> 16, 17 & 18. In the cases, where they can, we probably should. The >> references are intended to informative. [/MB] >> >> >> 3) REQMT-12: Rather than say "..more than two <sites>" >> should we use >> "..more than two endpoints". We don't have a definition for >> "site". >> >> [MB] We don't have an explicit definition but it can certainly be >> derived from the context. We use "site" in several other places >> and just >> replacing that with endpoint in those cases won't work - e.g,. in >> Section 4: "If Alice and Bob are at different sites, Alice needs >> to >> tell Bob about the camera and sound equipment arrangement at her >> site so >> that Bob's receiver can create an accurate rendering of her site." >> That all said, I think we can replace the use of "site" in that >> requirement as that's consistent with all the other requirements. >> [/MB] >> >> >> 4) General: Do we need to have some text in the document that >> indicates that there may be other unspecified requirements >> that may >> be implemented? The framework has a number of attributes >> that aren't >> mentioned as part of the requirements e.g. scene >> description. Or >> alternatively do we capture this by adding a generic >> requirement >> regarding description of the content of captures/scenes? The >> requirements are very focussed on spatial/render aspects >> rather than >> information pertaining to the selection of captures. >> >> [MB] I do not believe so. These are the bare bones requirements >> - if we >> don't have functionality to support these then we haven't done >> our job. >> However, the solution can certainly define additional >> functionality, >> that doesn't necessarily map to a specific requirement. The >> requirements should not be specifying all the details of the >> attributes >> necessary to support the use cases - that's the objective of the >> framework. Now, if you think there is a general requirement that's >> missing, certainly you can propose such. Realistically, >> requirements >> documents are starting points to seed the solution work. Once the >> solution is started unless the WG thinks a requirement can't be >> met, >> it's not necessarily productive to try to make the requirements >> document >> absolutely complete. Indeed, a number of WGs actually never >> publish >> requirements documents, but rather just cache them in an >> appendix for >> historical purposes. [/MB] >> >> >> 5) General: There seems to be a requirement in CLUE of the >> ability >> to indicate how captures are related to resources. e.g. the >> STS >> mechanism indicates which captures may be used together >> (which >> indicates which ones can't be used together) and the CSE >> that groups >> capture resources. This seems to be an important aspect of >> CLUE but >> there doesn't appear to be a requirement driving it. >> >> [MB] As I mentioned previously, we don't need to have a >> requirement to >> justify every aspect of the solution. We don't want to get >> into having >> to define capture scene entries, etc. in the requirements. We >> don't >> need to backwards engineer the requirements to match the >> solution. [/MB] >> >> >> Regards, Christian >> >> >> On 16/09/2013 5:32 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >> We started WGLC on the requirements two weeks ago. >> It has run for two weeks, and there have been *NO* >> comments!!! :-( >> >> I can't advance this document without better indication >> of >> support from the WG. So I'm extending this WGLC. I'll >> be away >> next weekend, so I will let this extension run another >> two >> weeks, ending Sunday Sept 29. >> >> We NEED NEED NEED your comments on this. Please review >> it again, >> and respond either positively or negatively, whether >> you think >> it is ready to progress. >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> On 9/2/13 3:50 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >> With this message I'm announcing the start of WGLC >> for >> draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-_**___requirements-05 >> >> >> >> This WGLC will last for roughly two weeks, ending at >> midnight GMT on >> Sunday September 15. >> >> It is important to have decisive results from a WGLC. >> (Silence doesn't do it.) >> So please, take a last careful look at these >> requirements >> and comment. >> If you like these as they are, please say so. >> >> Thanks, >> Paul (as co-chair) >> >> On 8/30/13 6:39 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org >> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.**org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>> >> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf._**_org >> >> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.**org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>>> >> wrote: >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the >> on-line >> Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the ControLling >> mUltiple >> streams for >> tElepresence Working Group of the IETF. >> >> Title : Requirements for >> Telepresence >> Multi-Streams >> Author(s) : Allyn Romanow >> Stephen Botzko >> Mary Barnes >> Filename : >> >> draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-_**___requirements-05.txt >> >> >> Pages : 13 >> Date : 2013-08-30 >> >> Abstract: >> This memo discusses the requirements for a >> specification that enables >> telepresence interoperability, by >> describing the >> relationship between >> multiple RTP streams. In addition, the >> problem >> statement and >> definitions are also covered herein. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft >> is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/_**___doc/draft-ietf-clue-____** >> telepresence-requirements<https://datatracker.ietf.org/____doc/draft-ietf-clue-____telepresence-requirements> >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/**__doc/draft-ietf-clue-__** >> telepresence-requirements<https://datatracker.ietf.org/__doc/draft-ietf-clue-__telepresence-requirements> >> > >> >> >> >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/**__doc/draft-ietf-clue-__** >> telepresence-requirements<https://datatracker.ietf.org/__doc/draft-ietf-clue-__telepresence-requirements> >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/**doc/draft-ietf-clue-** >> telepresence-requirements<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-requirements> >> >> >> >> >> >> There's also a htmlized version available at: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/___**_draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-** >> ____requirements-05<http://tools.ietf.org/html/____draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-____requirements-05> >> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/__**draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-_** >> _requirements-05<http://tools.ietf.org/html/__draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-__requirements-05> >> > >> >> >> >> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/__**draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-_** >> _requirements-05<http://tools.ietf.org/html/__draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-__requirements-05> >> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-** >> requirements-05<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-requirements-05> >> >> >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?__**__url2=draft-ietf-clue-____** >> telepresence-requirements-05<http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?____url2=draft-ietf-clue-____telepresence-requirements-05> >> <http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?_**_url2=draft-ietf-clue-__** >> telepresence-requirements-05<http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?__url2=draft-ietf-clue-__telepresence-requirements-05> >> > >> >> >> >> <http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?_**_url2=draft-ietf-clue-__** >> telepresence-requirements-05<http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?__url2=draft-ietf-clue-__telepresence-requirements-05> >> <http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?**url2=draft-ietf-clue-** >> telepresence-requirements-05<http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-requirements-05> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of >> minutes from >> the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are >> available at >> tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org> <http://tools.ietf.org>. >> >> >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous >> FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-__**__drafts/<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-____drafts/> >> <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-_**_drafts/<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-__drafts/> >> > >> <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-_**_drafts/<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-__drafts/> >> <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-**drafts/<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/> >> >> >> >> ______________________________** >> _____________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org <mailto:clue@ietf.org> <mailto:clue@ietf.org >> <mailto:clue@ietf.org>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/_**___listinfo/clue<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/____listinfo/clue> >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**__listinfo/clue<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/clue> >> > >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**__listinfo/clue<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/clue> >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/clue<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________** >> _____________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org <mailto:clue@ietf.org> <mailto:clue@ietf.org >> <mailto:clue@ietf.org>> >> 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- [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-r… internet-drafts
- [clue] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-teleprese… Mary Barnes
- [clue] WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-telepresence-require… Paul Kyzivat
- [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-telepres… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Christian Groves
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Mary Barnes
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Mary Barnes
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Mary Barnes
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Christian Groves
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Michael Hammer
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Duckworth, Mark
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Duckworth, Mark
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [clue] REMINDER!!! WGLC: draft-ietf-clue-tele… Mary Barnes