Re: [core] John Scudder's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-oscore-edhoc-10: (with DISCUSS)

John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> Wed, 03 April 2024 16:29 UTC

Return-Path: <jgs@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F14CC14F61F; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 09:29:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.875
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.875 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.08, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b="mco4mmNr"; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b="jj86NuGw"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZQr2cR8ZfgpZ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48B88C14F61C; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108160.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.17.1.24/8.17.1.24) with ESMTP id 4338od6s009227; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 09:29:03 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h= from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=pK7CR66t9cf/do0wJdc78ISwY3pPHwZNprpgzQQPDLA=; b=m co4mmNrLUjDl+MbkieGLHwKJj3ZsNr63mv2H0STmdappLO9aMK9a2Cr4TAlYVJd7 10b5wduVhJK32PZWe6W2S8dKr2a4DnTaqMNP97NzGCh+XA7TjB0X/N7++MHs7VFW 6/a3zXfGAOczcEW4cyMOB0ILCD0oz2UiJMvIKulrE5iaU1aZWA35Tl7KIfRtCEVP ZQCYEQvQVSuZWyaaAXphOuqXEDP3UgueDHaTCmhFY2Uj50JF42xIIKe/x7d4qu8c TdD9PSkjNAbYMlZeCyz5Fq0bpOCLFjyXOmsKsffRMuatWtoREfXRHrTAPvOCF5YN TvvDS2a3RICo0P78mhn4w==
Received: from dm1pr04cu001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-centralusazlp17013021.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.93.13.21]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3x6gnd9nwe-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 03 Apr 2024 09:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=QhP5wSVRvGJ7mR8tchuDHqGGHnwik1LFLJMZXwiN1oGNmT8gu4f1iVS8EK9+Vca9pdUQScElEEWsRMtowltnvsxs/p42bYXSWU0DV8uMNFleulgwN/q3ROpG4EG67CR0pj4TwbcJ8f3q4MXniMQhbb7sgUPloSWxD3jEg/E9+/IuOn1VzWwUqH/6oEWCh0XH5Db9Ufj43sqv9r4TTMSmgkTfHJvDrn56P2vPpHmRlKL0UpEtMqYzQaG0QpH8x1Bbs+3/mWdnKVDRLolSJd4FfIto5ILt4IZ8e/sMUg522YZvdg58nYwQoJu1LysqmirwudzuMn5hCQdm/aqjGsnwlw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=pK7CR66t9cf/do0wJdc78ISwY3pPHwZNprpgzQQPDLA=; b=OUcMx955dO/txjHiEjQyEfRWJD2xF7F4LNjQRzMu4B3nvl+HeImQSJLQm3nnu+31IRPWZ8xpLEJk3q/SQ7wFakNLRlbfRoM/IL5xRrpQ+3/3JHWloy1LutiU2KRBIWq8+Fr3rMWS0C6W9Uyy+mJRyZYEWAgbFtv7oem7v8FF8QrlVT6zTDhN2VtOXJSBfXafYkXHWFlHzncqs37aP42v/kiY5Rd/wlZELs8z1kWW1Kp3qcRu/0AgzHuRuKB1tkc/kjKJGhyvZm6bmVOxzmEi1k7sGunvJUdFtOGX6OqCGTbBwU77lWZwCZv6+4JqiTri6Zs+UYGNGeJ/8fdLzOXnXQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=pK7CR66t9cf/do0wJdc78ISwY3pPHwZNprpgzQQPDLA=; b=jj86NuGwE5sZkiy2ZhUSC3Wchr92jKO5LHUf+1vcQzRi5g4602zQqKoOjHpv01iLQUGW0FWn3iW/8VMwJDRF9mmMs6Zx07KqNFtFd/6dKGjh6FllNCgXp+Zn/LSfE9BxN6KeOTuGsNuNRfeGmJhBrUZTffk6wnw3wfK6KSdsbmw=
Received: from CH2PR05MB6856.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:3e::11) by PH0PR05MB7671.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:24::6) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7409.46; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 16:29:00 +0000
Received: from CH2PR05MB6856.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f1bf:41e0:23ff:7eff]) by CH2PR05MB6856.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f1bf:41e0:23ff:7eff%5]) with mapi id 15.20.7409.042; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 16:29:00 +0000
From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-core-oscore-edhoc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-core-oscore-edhoc@ietf.org>, "core-chairs@ietf.org" <core-chairs@ietf.org>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [core] John Scudder's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-oscore-edhoc-10: (with DISCUSS)
Thread-Index: AQHahUPim9akKr0BlE6CrzABnYTRw7FWoeqAgAAPVgCAAAw7gA==
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 16:29:00 +0000
Message-ID: <A78F18F9-54A9-4907-9461-AB6D90FF02D8@juniper.net>
References: <171209295110.36690.2503046078430078938@ietfa.amsl.com> <BB6803D5-7D3B-4F63-A757-B0DE825CD5AD@tzi.org> <D823F4E7-EC8C-4494-9A61-824103C78BED@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <D823F4E7-EC8C-4494-9A61-824103C78BED@tzi.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.500.171.1.1)
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR05MB6856:EE_|PH0PR05MB7671:EE_
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CH2PR05MB6856.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(1800799015)(376005)(366007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <CCD9ED4D830A6243BD5FB055847AB2F2@namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH2PR05MB6856.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5a537f9c-ef98-4f20-1d3a-08dc53fb2b0f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Apr 2024 16:29:00.3574 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: H3yOysA3869aEqiSRhmAj5gCal/jT4rNBMyaUXqb+x+2eWeaxVYF0YLj+Db2uobl
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR05MB7671
X-Proofpoint-GUID: wyG-771cviYWl3Xo86zZkl7ycXGJTbZE
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: wyG-771cviYWl3Xo86zZkl7ycXGJTbZE
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1011,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-04-03_16,2024-04-03_01,2023-05-22_02
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2403210001 definitions=main-2404030112
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/2VmE2_dJsVW7h6d3S4dArLGA3F4>
Subject: Re: [core] John Scudder's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-oscore-edhoc-10: (with DISCUSS)
X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" <core.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/core>, <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/core/>
List-Post: <mailto:core@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core>, <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 16:29:08 -0000

> On Apr 3, 2024, at 11:45 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
...
> We could make this a bit more standing out as in RFC 8881:
> 
>   Hence, all assignments to the registry are made on a Standards Action
>   basis per Section 4.6 of [63], with Expert Review required.
> 
> ([63] is an obfuscated reference to RFC 8126, where the section referenced of course actually should be 4.9).  We could then add that RFC 7120 applies.

That sounds good to me. I might word it as “with Expert Review required in addition” but polish as you see best. 

Given that IANA has also indicated to me in a side channel that the policy name as written already works for them, I’ve moved to COMMENT in any case, but I think it’ll be helpful for innocent bystanders at least, to improve the text in the spec as you suggest.

Hopefully, we’ll be able to do a less ad-hoc fix in 8216bis/7120bis.

Thanks,

—John