Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate discovery
Viktor Dukhovni <viktor1dane@dukhovni.org> Thu, 06 February 2014 00:48 UTC
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From: Viktor Dukhovni <viktor1dane@dukhovni.org>
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References: <20140106212911.12960.24322.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <A1C41700-578C-45C1-9A66-ACC051970F47@gmail.com> <5DEFF47F-6533-4F1B-8D23-216108989787@verisign.com> <03FF6C3C-0542-4D0F-97D5-1785F55D2CEF@vpnc.org> <FAB9D9AB-023B-48E3-BD26-15FC9B87FE3F@verisign.com> <6F632081-95C9-4E61-831D-EAEF2ECCE08C@vpnc.org> <20140205235002.GP278@mournblade.imrryr.org> <EC7670F0-A6C8-45FE-A2C1-7967AF9FD43B@vpnc.org>
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Subject: Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate discovery
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On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 04:34:41PM -0800, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Feb 5, 2014, at 3:50 PM, Viktor Dukhovni <viktor1dane@dukhovni.org> wrote: > > > Since I am relatively new here, I'll ask: What is the distinction? > > Well, that's a hard one because different people slice and dice differently. The summary I often use is: > > Delivery: tell me how to use X at domain name Y > Discovery: tell me whether there is service X at domain name Y > > Another way to do this is: > > Delivery: I'm pretty sure domain name Y does X: tell me what I need to know > Discovery: I want to findo out if domain name Y does X Hmm, ... neither of these formulations talk about future behaviour. The SMTP draft I've been working on for most of the past year (with Wes) is in essence doing downgrade-resistant discovery of STARTTLS support and getting usable authentication parameters in the process. This "discovery" is performed for each and every SMTP connection. So it is "delivery" per my guess at a definition, but seemingly "discovery" under yours. So I am at a bit of a loss how the above definition of the dichotomy bears on the question of certificate revocation. If "discovery" means locate once and cache indefinitely, then revocation rears its ugly head. Otherwise, it is just about whether some bit of policy or behaviour is a-priori or based on DNS lookup and I don't see why revocation support or non-support is related to "discovery" vs. "delivery". Or is the request for CU 4 not the reason for this tangent? Are we talking about discovery vs. delivery because of the request to separate signing vs. encryption certs? If so, how does the request cross the line from "delivery" to "discovery"? -- Viktor.
- [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.txt internet-drafts
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Scott Rose
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Scott Rose
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Scott Rose
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate disc… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Larsen, Todd
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Larsen, Todd
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Jim Schaad
- [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Wiley, Glen
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Tom Ritter
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime John Levine
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-03.t… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Osterweil, Eric
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [dane] Feature creep for draft-ietf-dane-smime Warren Kumari
- Re: [dane] draft-ietf-dane-smime and certificate … Wes Hardaker