Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-01: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
"Black, David" <david.black@emc.com> Thu, 11 June 2015 22:15 UTC
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From: "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>
To: "Bertz, Lyle T [CTO]" <Lyle.T.Bertz@sprint.com>, Martin Stiemerling <mls.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-01: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 22:15:05 +0000
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Cc: "dime-chairs@ietf.org" <dime-chairs@ietf.org>, "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>
Subject: Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-01: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Lyle, > The Congestion-Treatment AVP (AVP Code TBD) is of type Grouped. It > indicates how to treat traffic flow(s) when congestion is detected. > The detection of the congestion can be based on the reception of IP > packets packet with the CE (Congestion Experienced) codepoint set > (see [RFC 3168]) or by any other administratively defined criteria. What does "traffic flow(s)" mean in this text? A clear explanation of that should remove the concern that this draft might be applying congestion treatment to just the CE-marked packets and not the entire 5-tuple (or more). Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Bertz, Lyle T [CTO] [mailto:Lyle.T.Bertz@sprint.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:02 PM > To: Martin Stiemerling; The IESG > Cc: Black, David; dime@ietf.org; dime-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime- > congestion-flow-attributes-01: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Martin, > > Regarding the DISCUSS point the language in 3.2 is problematic, we will change > > The Congestion-Treatment AVP (AVP Code TBD) is of type Grouped and > indicates how congested traffic, i.e., traffic that has Explicit > Congestion Notification Congestion Experienced marking set or some > other administratively defined criteria, is treated. > > to > > The Congestion-Treatment AVP (AVP Code TBD) is of type Grouped. It > indicates how to treat traffic flow(s) when congestion is detected. > The detection of the congestion can be based on the reception of IP > packets packet with the CE (Congestion Experienced) codepoint set > (see [RFC 3168]) or by any other administratively defined criteria. > > The rationale for the word 'flow(s)' in the new language is the last sentence > of the section 3.2 - "The Congestion-Treatment AVP is an action and MUST be > an attribute of the Filter-Rule Grouped AVP as defined in RFC5777. " It is > other AVPs in the Filter-Rule, e.g. Classifier, that describes the scope of > traffic impacted. Saying something in Section 3.2 that does not associate the > Congestion-Treatment AVP to the Filter-Rule it is a part of only creates > confusion. > > --------------------------------- > Per the COMMENT, you are correct. We'll change > > "The first AVP provides direct support for ECN [RFC3168] in the IP > header“ > > to your suggestion > > "The first AVP provides direct support for filtering ECN > marked traffic[RFC3168]“ > > -----Original Message----- > From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Stiemerling > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 3:36 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: david.black@emc.com; dime@ietf.org; dime-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime-congestion- > flow-attributes-01: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Martin Stiemerling has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-01: Discuss > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory > paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > No general objection to the publication of the document. However, I am > relaying a question from David Black as a DISCUSS point. > > I assume that the draft is more than unclear in Section 3.2 about what > traffic means. Is it a particular flow, a single packet, etc? > > "I found an ECN concern, and hence added the TSV ADs to the CC line. > > Section 3.2 says: > > The Congestion-Treatment AVP (AVP Code TBD) is of type Grouped and > indicates how congested traffic, i.e., traffic that has Explicit > Congestion Notification Congestion Experienced marking set or some > other administratively defined criteria, is treated. > > That appears to say that the congestion treatment may be applied solely to > packets that have the CE (Congestion Experienced) marking. > That would be a problem, because the defined semantics of a CE marking is that > it applies to the entire flow (e.g., causes TCP to react as if a packet has > been dropped), hence the congestion treatment ought to apply to the entire > flow. > > In other words, one wants to be able to use the ECN-IP-Codepoint AVP as part > of the condition that determines whether the filter rule matches, but ignore > that AVP (i.e., wildcard it) in determining what traffic the action applies > to, so that the response to detecting a congested flow (i.e., packets with ECN > field containing CE) applies to all packets in the flow, regardless of the > value in the CE field. > > Otherwise, the result may be ineffective, as it won't encompass packets in the > congested flow that aren't CE-marked. > > Am I reading the draft correctly?" > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Section 1, 1st paragraph: > It says "The first AVP provides direct support for ECN [RFC3168] in the IP > header“. I am sure that your draft is ot providing any support for ECN in > the IP header, as we have ECN in the IP header already, isn't it. > I guess you mean something like this "The first AVP provides direct support > for filtering ECN marked traffic[RFC3168]“ > > > _______________________________________________ > DiME mailing list > DiME@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime > > ________________________________ > > This e-mail may contain Sprint proprietary information intended for the sole > use of the recipient(s). Any use by others is prohibited. If you are not the > intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of the > message.
- [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Stiemerling
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Bertz, Lyle T [CTO]
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Bertz, Lyle T [CTO]
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Black, David
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Bertz, Lyle T [CTO]
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… lionel.morand
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Bertz, Lyle T [CTO]
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Black, David
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Black, David
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… lionel.morand
- Re: [Dime] Martin Stiemerling's Discuss on draft-… Kathleen Moriarty