Re: [dispatch] New I-D - SPIN - on voice/video interop between app providers

Richard Shockey <> Tue, 12 July 2022 22:25 UTC

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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:24:59 -0400
From: Richard Shockey <>
To: Richard Barnes <>, Jonathan Rosenberg <>
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Thread-Topic: [dispatch] New I-D - SPIN - on voice/video interop between app providers
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Subject: Re: [dispatch] New I-D - SPIN - on voice/video interop between app providers
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I’m sorry folks to pour cold water on any of this.


There is a very very long history of trying to get vendors to interoperate on advanced communications protocols. All of them have been a failure.


Discovery BTW is a long standing problem since yours truly chaired the IETF ENUM working group that ultimately produced RFC 6116.   


Yes ENUM is still alive and well and provides very valuable services to those with hearing impairments. The FCC



If you even think of trying this with E.164 numbers RFC 6116  needs to be rewritten to deal with DoH.  Ask me how I know.


The FCC looked at interoperable video messaging to no avail. I know since I sit on the FCC NANC.


Its certainly worth looking at and Yes I’m coming to Phili. 





Richard Shockey

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board SIP Forum  (2022)


Skype-Linkedin-Facebook –Twitter  rshockey101

PSTN +1 703-593-2683



From: dispatch <> on behalf of Richard Barnes <>
Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:37 PM
To: Jonathan Rosenberg <>
Cc: <>
Subject: Re: [dispatch] New I-D - SPIN - on voice/video interop between app providers


Hi Jonathan,


Thanks for putting this together.  Between this and the MIMI BoF proposal that Rohan submitted [1], there's clearly a lot of renewed interest in interop in these services, which I obviously support.  A couple of friendly amendments, in no particular order:


Since we're so early in this effort, I would suggest that any work here *not* focus on the protocols themselves.  ("The SPIN Framework recommends specific protocols..." -- I mean that it should not recommend.)  Work on modern interoperable messaging is very early, and even in the voice/video space, while there's a lot of SIP, there's a lot of other things as well.  Where this draft has a single URL, I would probably have multiple.


While connecting to phone numbers is indeed one of the major challenges for modern apps, it seems like the system you describe here is not inherently tied to them, especially since you're trusting STIR, not SMS for authentication.  The whole system would work if you have (a) a way to reach the terminating device, and (b) a way to authenticate the originating and terminating devices.  Opening up in this way could open the door to a more generic "how else is this person reachable" service.


It seems like there are some practical issues with the proposal as stated.  For example, when is the user notified that someone is trying to contact them?  If it happens when the SPINvite shows up, then you'll have quite a long post-dial delay while the URL goes back and the application protocol sets up. If it happens when the INVITE shows up, then you've created an oracle for anyone to ask for someone's contacts, which seems bad.  Some prototyping here would be useful.


Overall, I agree this is an interesting area of work, especially if we focus on the discovery protocol.






On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 10:13 AM Jonathan Rosenberg <> wrote:

Hi fellow dispatchers - 


I wanted to call attention to the following draft submitted yesterday:



This document introduces a framework and a protocol for facilitating
   voice, video and messaging interoperability between application
   providers.  This work is motivated by the recent passage of
   regulation in the European Union - the Digital Markets Act (DMA) -
   which, amongst many other provisions, requires that vendors of
   applications with a large number of users enable interoperability
   with applications made by other vendors.  While such interoperability
   is broadly present within the public switched telephone network, it
   is not yet commonplace between over-the-top applications, such as
   Facetime, WhatsApp, and Facebook Messenger.  This document
   specifically defines the Simple Protocol for Inviting Numbers (SPIN)
   which is used to deliver invitations to mobile phone numbers that can
   bootstrap subsequent communications over the Internet.

Right now, we're looking to see if there is interest in working on this. Comments welcome.



Jonathan R.



Jonathan Rosenberg, Ph.D.

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