Re: [dispatch] draft-devault-bare-07 to be discussed during IETF 114

Jiri Vlasak <jiri.hubacek@gmail.com> Wed, 27 July 2022 08:02 UTC

Return-Path: <jiri.hubacek@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E753CC16ECED for <dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 01:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.108
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gLtOoxRlbT0C for <dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 01:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90E4BC16ECEC for <dispatch@ietf.org>; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 01:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id fy29so30017119ejc.12 for <dispatch@ietf.org>; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 01:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=PS0p9vOTKipr39T/xZzLuvjd24MyDc1QMbhk6XCVRiw=; b=iDo/CDWE7q/TkbUezFzCHh6p6yvdl8uKUrPfnyvEaCXgN3IOgatCMxi1ov4z0oD8lz 688YMqIEWBJGrcusKzYK3NHdSdvPQDHyGNSmdo2BLrCDcD48qnQJ2Bya2lMROaED3s0/ 1I/p0fsoFsbQI90SF/QR1MM4CWAbnWyUnHNORsM5HbRiKmSYMGRa2mM5MEq15kU+XkPx WDbfuYflUWUNOeezEFaGk8iLAQYu6Fywb2ak8jP43ojpaCoE0gqZ7iAnhmDk0QXAb3wU fE4fPNScsH1oj9PExWJFVWtw2Y+pPa+EvLzqh2GURQl8KfJquty+kZ34f2MyiXJcmp8R LC8g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-disposition :in-reply-to; bh=PS0p9vOTKipr39T/xZzLuvjd24MyDc1QMbhk6XCVRiw=; b=SnaD0ABXCeWRYEHlPR2GxpJHJWX3fpCA60cyUfzs7Wj6AxLxyeWLj6ElCSli+UkhRq r9KdWZ9/SatMakcoHCgO3vxZ2amPIMKSUS9DOTuqbA14HOENBeGha+zjQyzqPMdD/4GS /JG+T/J95y66Be6cW8H1Cjn8eMJWbFLAlSTb9SuNvTBBONL1Q6LiqdYbg0BiHlwTtrb4 dM7jEfOH5ECLZ/GGnoTlD1bjF9fS8QBcSEFOsnqIaIqPzqQo8u8RtWp4LvbdFGgiq2S/ F4zHU8LwRG2dwJHy22ox5MqhLFlhd+098OAQU4jJr3ei2+hyP62auRjePCrud88n5LmX 3uQg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/8emXj4vyz3ZnSm4x1cXlii+GBO5aoOkrPAGB6kfF6lqUDP9Qx mnRuqWg2RC/R+Kyx/vCfTdXI/YWMyds=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1voUUQL3cp3B4+zjOObmHIcvY3fHmIO2KINPMCAf41wVYQ85+of18Rxc6sbi0H9wThG7llLdA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:72d2:b0:72b:d238:4e81 with SMTP id du18-20020a17090772d200b0072bd2384e81mr17289149ejc.104.1658908931872; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 01:02:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cvut.cz (fw3.ciirc.cvut.cz. [147.32.71.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id jw7-20020a170906e94700b00715705dd23asm7319466ejb.89.2022.07.27.01.02.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 27 Jul 2022 01:02:11 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 10:02:09 +0200
From: Jiri Vlasak <jiri.hubacek@gmail.com>
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Cc: dispatch@ietf.org
Message-ID: <YuDxASssK9VtXO05@cvut.cz>
Mail-Followup-To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>, dispatch@ietf.org
References: <YqC0MHD7MPpcFEuc@cvut.cz> <CAL02cgRVtSdkJxNe50ZLVQgF=3OWaBOC56X_wSdDgEgxovSCng@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAL02cgRVtSdkJxNe50ZLVQgF=3OWaBOC56X_wSdDgEgxovSCng@mail.gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/_n6d5r1WALMfX_34CE1lUpLVx3k>
Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-devault-bare-07 to be discussed during IETF 114
X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List <dispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:dispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 08:02:14 -0000

> It seems worth observing here that BARE has a lot of overlap with the
> "TLS syntax", the presentation syntax used in TLS and MLS [1][2].

Thank you, I will do my research on TLS and MLS in the following weeks
to understand the overlap.

> The one thing that it seems like TLS accounts for and BARE does not is
> canonicalization

We discussed this during the draft update process. Unfortunately,
complete canonicalization is not possible at least because of the
support for the floating point numbers. From the "Appendix D. Design
Decisions" of the BARE I-D:

> f32 and f64 are fully compliant with IEEE 754 [IEEE.754.1985]
> 
> 	The use-case is a sensor sending NaN values or encoding of
> 	infinity in scientific applications.
> 
> 	The consequences are that encoded values of f32 and f64 types
> 	are not canonical, and therefore forbidden as map keys.

However, it is possible to use such a scheme that is fully canonical.

> BARE is close, but there are a few things that would need to be nailed
> down, like the order of map keys.

This is another deliberate decision. From the "Appendix D. Design
Decisions" of the BARE I-D:

> There is no ordered map type
> 
> 	Ordered maps are not widely supported in programming
> 	environments. Users that want to use ordered maps can use a list
> 	of pairs:
> 
> 	list<struct {
> 		key: KeyType
> 		val: ValType
> 	}>