Re: [dns-privacy] DNS and QUIC,HTTP/3 Long term vision...

"Vinny Parla (vparla)" <vparla@cisco.com> Thu, 08 October 2020 15:12 UTC

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From: "Vinny Parla (vparla)" <vparla@cisco.com>
To: Andrew Campling <andrew.campling@419.consulting>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, James <james.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "dns-privacy@ietf.org" <dns-privacy@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dns-privacy] DNS and QUIC,HTTP/3 Long term vision...
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/zqHk0Z2TyIZohqAEAfLLf1k0vYQ>
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] DNS and QUIC,HTTP/3 Long term vision...
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Hi Andrew,

 

I agree with your view and am not in favor of aggregating Content and DNS together, although I can see arguments for doing this.

I am just wondering if Browser implementors have plans to do this in the future as I need to deal with both OS DNS and Browser (app) DNS scenarios.

 

>From Tommy’s response I am hopeful the OS implementors won’t do this in the future and will keep DNS an independent mechanism.

 

-Vinny

 

From: Andrew Campling <andrew.campling@419.consulting> 
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 4:33 AM
To: Vinny Parla (vparla) <vparla@cisco.com>om>; Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; James <james.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: dns-privacy@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [dns-privacy] DNS and QUIC,HTTP/3 Long term vision...

 

Important though browsers are for some, DNS is an Internet protocol and needs to work for a wide range of devices and clients.  Mandating its absorption into a multiplexed stream via HTTP/3 seems unnecessary, irrespective of the potential performance gains and other possible benefits for web clients.   

 

Andrew 

 

From: Vinny Parla (vparla) <vparla@cisco.com <mailto:vparla@cisco.com> > 
Sent: 07 October 2020 15:40
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >; James <james.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:james.ietf@gmail.com> >
Cc: dns-privacy@ietf.org <mailto:dns-privacy@ietf.org> 
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] DNS and QUIC,HTTP/3 Long term vision...

 

Hi,

 

What I am driving at in my original question is do we envision mixing Content and DNS together in a multiplexed session or will DNS continue to be an entirely independent channel (whether over HTTP/2 /3 Do53 DoQ DoH).

 

-Vinny

 

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > 
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 9:23 AM
To: James <james.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:james.ietf@gmail.com> >
Cc: Vinny Parla (vparla) <vparla@cisco.com <mailto:vparla@cisco.com> >; dns-privacy@ietf.org <mailto:dns-privacy@ietf.org> 
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] DNS and QUIC,HTTP/3 Long term vision...

 

Can you cite this claim about DNS over HTTP/3? The per-query cost once an HTTP/3 connection is established should be minimal. If you’re taking into account all setup overhead for an HTTPS connection as a “per query” cost, that’s not representative of how DoH is reasonably used (and would be a issue with existing DoH).

 

Thanks,

Tommy

 

On Oct 6, 2020, at 2:03 PM, James <james.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:james.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

My most recent observations of discussions around DNS over QUIC and HTTP/3 was that some folks had attempted DNS over HTTP/3, however the overheads (~14KiB for a query at worst-case) made it impractical and infeasible. With regards to DNS over QUIC, the current dprive working group adopted draft [1] is focusing on stub to recursive, but not necessarily as a multiplex with an existing QUIC connection.

 

- J

 

1:  <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dprive-dnsoquic-00> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dprive-dnsoquic-00

 

On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 at 17:31, Vinny Parla (vparla) <vparla= <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi,

 

It was suggested that I ask this question on the 3 lists:

 

Now that QUIC & HTTP/3 is imminent…

 

I would like to know what the opinion is of the community on the long term view of DNS.  

Would DNS remain an independent channel or would it be subsumed in a multiplexed stream via HTTP/3 in some future version?

 

For example, would a browser perform DNS queries over a QUIC multiplexed session?

 (e.g. similar to how today an http proxy can perform DNS queries on behalf of the client using that proxy) 

 

Would love to hear from implementors what their long term view is of this in particular.

 

Thanks,

 

-Vinny

 

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