Re: [DNSOP] data at delegation points

Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org> Wed, 15 April 2020 08:41 UTC

Return-Path: <shane@time-travellers.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B53FC3A0041 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 01:41:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Quarantine-ID: <ndz_0tHGK87A>
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam-Report: ...T_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content previ[...]
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ndz_0tHGK87A for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 01:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from saturn.zonnestelsel.tk (saturn.zonnestelsel.tk [IPv6:2001:470:78c8:2::11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 801E73A003B for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 01:41:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from earth.zonnestelsel.tk ([2001:470:78c8:2::9]) by saturn.zonnestelsel.tk with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <shane@time-travellers.org>) id 1jOdbl-0005VJ-AT for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 08:41:23 +0000
To: dnsop@ietf.org
References: <060513e7-742d-6de9-cf16-c367fbb13845@redbarn.org>
From: Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org>
Message-ID: <a28ea84e-9d7c-506c-3bfe-eb5922899da2@time-travellers.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:41:20 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <060513e7-742d-6de9-cf16-c367fbb13845@redbarn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score-Int: -28
X-Spam-Bar: --
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/H09UdARuHhemgXaFO2jRbyGaXwQ>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] data at delegation points
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 08:41:30 -0000

DNS friends,

On 14/04/2020 17.43, Paul Vixie wrote:
> today it was proposed that NS2 be added as a new record-set type that 
> could exist in either the parent or the child, similar to NS, and 
> reminding several of us about the DS debacle.
> 
> DS should never have been placed at the delegation point, and has led to 
> a decade or longer of bugs and corner cases and complexity. it ought to 
> have been a nephew domain of the delegation point, but, in the parent:
> 
> so instead of example.com DS, it should have been example._dnssec.com DS.
> 
> this is the approach i suggest for anything like NS2.

I think this makes abundant sense.

Some information about delegation clearly belongs in the parent, and 
only in the parent.

NS in the child-but-also the parent was clearly a bit of a bad design. 
DS in the parent-but-kind-of-also-the-child (via DNSKEY records) was an 
attempted step in the right direction, but clearly also a bit of a bad 
design. Paul's proposal (or a similar one) seems like a really good 
approach to me.

We can include something like CDS/CDNSKEY from the very beginning as 
well, as an in-band signaling for parent/child synchronization.

Cheers,

--
Shane