Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags
Shumon Huque <shuque@gmail.com> Wed, 28 February 2024 21:22 UTC
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From: Shumon Huque <shuque@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 16:22:04 -0500
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To: Edward Lewis <edward.lewis@icann.org>
Cc: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, "dnsop@ietf.org" <dnsop@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags
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On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 3:59 PM Edward Lewis <edward.lewis@icann.org> wrote: > On 2/27/24, 17:09, "DNSOP on behalf of John Levine" < > dnsop-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of johnl@taugh.com> wrote: > > > The kind of load is different but in each case the client needs to > > limit the amount of work it's willing to do. We can forbid it in the > > protocol but unless you have better contacts at the Protocol Police > > than I do, people will do it anyway. > > I side with John Levine's line of reasoning, that the solution is > defending against taking on too much work (in this case, the validator caps > it's effort - in whatever way is appropriate). It would be futile to > prevent key tag collisions from happening via a protocol change as a > malicious actor is not bounded by specifications. > > If it is forbidden in the protocol, it might still happen. > Yeah, as you might guess from my past messages on this thread, I am of the same opinion. There is a general principle about limiting work that resolvers need to follow, and this recent attack (like many others before it) exploited resolvers that failed to sensibly do that. The novel thing in KeyTrap is that it exploited a failure to bound cryptographic work, but the same principle applies. Here's my minor restatement of the resolver's top priority from RFC 1034: Bound the amount of work (e.g. packets sent, parallel processes started, computations performed, time spent) so that a request can't get into an infinite loop, start off a chain reaction or unreasonably lengthy sequence of tasks, requests or queries, EVEN IF SOMEONE HAS INCORRECTLY OR MALICIOUSLY CONFIGURED SOME DATA. In the parenthetical examples of bounding work, I've added "computations performed" and "time spent". And in the uppercased "EVEN IF" phrase, I've added "MALICIOUS CONFIGURED". I think the specific case of keytag collisions does deserve some special thought though. Even if resolvers limit the number of collisions, it's in a zone owner's interest to not have them at all. Colliding keytags in the DNSKEY RRset means imposing additional unnecessary signature verification work on resolvers for verifying every signed RRset in the response. And for efficiency reasons, a zone owner should want to have their answers accepted by validating resolvers with the minimum amount of work (and no unnecessary work). Banning keytag collisions outright today would not be a good idea - we risk rendering some sights unresolvable through no fault of their own. DNSSEC already has plenty of detractors, and we don't want to give them more ammunition by creating problems in the ecosystem that can be easily avoided. I think writing a BCP telling folks how to avoid collisions would make sense though (and yes, it needs to cover the multi-signer case too). Shumon.
- [DNSOP] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Arnold DECHAMPS
- Re: [DNSOP] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] About key tags Wellington, Brian
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Re: About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Yorgos Thessalonikefs
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Donald Eastlake
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Wellington, Brian
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Wellington, Brian
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags libor.peltan
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Re: About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags and sensible lim… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags libor.peltan
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags and their infreq… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags and collision nu… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags and collision nu… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Lanlan Pan
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Arnold DECHAMPS
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Nothing more useful to say Abou… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Nothing more useful to say Abou… Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Nothing more useful to say Abou… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Dave Lawrence
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] About key tags Petr Špaček