Re: [Edm] Some thoughts on Sep 1 meeting, Issue 1

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 10 September 2020 20:45 UTC

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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 08:44:55 +1200
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Subject: Re: [Edm] Some thoughts on Sep 1 meeting, Issue 1
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Hi,

I too think that RFC7942 is sadly under-used; it's very rare that I see it during
Gen-ART reviews and I would like to see more. I have used it myself in a few drafts.

However, I think it would be a serious mistake to include such information
in RFCs. RFCs are archival documents with an infinite lifetime. Do we really
want them to contain URLs for GitHub repositories of prototype implementations?
Or what amounts to advertising for specific products? Should RFC 2460 include
a pointer to the first commercial IPv6 implementation (IBM AIX 4.3)?

A dogfood wiki on the IETF site would be the best place for an ongoing (but
surely not permanent) record of implementations, IMHO.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 11-Sep-20 06:49, Vijay Gurbani wrote:
> Dear Mirja: Thanks for your time.  More inline.
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 1:33 PM Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net <mailto:ietf@kuehlewind.net>> wrote:
> 
>     Just very quickly some points. Having read all RFCs that we have published in the four years of my AD time I can tell you that RFC7942 is used form time to time. However, it also addresses a different problem then what you ask for, namely how do people in the wg know about existing implementations. 
> 
> 
> OK, it is good to know that we are eating our own dog food, albeit in small portions.  If RFC7942 is in the ballpark, but addresses a slightly different problem, then perhaps we can see what can be salvaged by an rfc7942-bis.  The problem of people in the WG knowing about existing implementations is (I believe) easily solved by anyone participating in a WG meeting (or list), most should quickly pick up where the most promising implementations are.  The bigger problem is what about others that do not participate in the WG deliberations, and more importantly, how to highlight implementations that tracked the I-D to when it became an RFC, but all of a sudden, in the post RFC world, there is no clear path for newcomers on how to find the code.
> 
>     QUIC decides to use another tool for this purpose; I guess for several reason, one being that many implementors in QUIC who have been new to the IETF are actually more familiar with GitHub than any IETF procedures. 
> 
> 
> Right, and the fact that QUIC put this GitHub URL in the I-D itself underscores my point on why it is important to maintain such links to help non-IETF implementers by providing them information in the RFC itself.  Especially after the I-D becomes an RFC.
>  
> 
>     My expectation is that note you mentioned for QUIC will be removed before publication as RFC.
> 
> 
> That would be a tremendous loss of information for the non-IETF development community.  I am sure some will stumble on the QUIC GitHub, and I am equally sure that many will not.  I am arguing to make such an informal tie-in more explicit and institutionalized.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - vijay
>