Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART LC review of draft-loreto-http-bidirectional-05.txt

[Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>]

I agree. It may be time for RFC3205bis, but that's a whole
other discussion.

Thanks
   Brian Carpenter

On 2010-12-23 11:45, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Yes, I completely agree with that approach. Let's leave the judgments for
> others...
> 
> 
> On 12/22/10 3:23 PM, "Stefano Salsano" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
>> as a co-author, I understand the concerns raised by Brian and I agree
>> with Peter's proposals to address them
>>
>> We can clarify that the goal of this draft is not to endorse the
>> long-polling techniques (but rather to present the known issues and the
>>   counter-measures that try to mitigate these issues)
>>
>> I do think we should not go further and add a judgemental statement
>> along the line of Brian's comment ("This is real example of protocol
>> abuse. HTTP wasn't designed for this and doesn't do this properly")
>>
>> but I think that we can more neutrally add a sentence stating that the
>> proposed techniques stretch the original semantic of HTTP and that the
>> HTTP protocol was not designed for this use... which is a fact rather
>> than a judgement.
>>
>> Stefano
>>
>> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>> On 12/3/10 8:44 PM, "Brian E Carpenter" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is real example of protocol abuse. HTTP wasn't designed for
>>>> this and doesn't do this properly.
>>> Which is why folks who are currently using long-polling techniques are
>>> actively contributing to the HYBI WG.
>>>
>>>> The draft is non-judgmental,
>>>> and that might be a mistake.
>>> The draft is Informational and therefore isn't really in a position to pass
>>> judgments. All it is trying to say is: we know that long-polling techniques
>>> have many issues, but if you're going to use these techniques then at least
>>> try to do so with some modicum of intelligence. We're making the best of a
>>> bad situation, and if the HYBI WG is successful then hopefully people won't
>>> feel the need for long-polling techniques in the future.
>>>
>>>> Personally, if I was in the IESG,
>>>> I'd be considering a "holding my nose" ABSTAIN ballot
>>> I'll be balloting RECUSE.
>>>
>>>> unless some
>>>> text stating that the methods described are really bad ideas
>>>> was added.
>>> I'd have no problem with adding a sentence or two to the effect that
>>> long-polling is a temporary hack that emerged from the applications
>>> community and will hopefully be superseded by technologies that aren't so
>>> abusive of HTTP. I'll confer with my co-authors about wordsmithing, if they
>>> agree that it's a good idea to add such text.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *******************************************************************
>> Stefano Salsano
>> Dipartimento Ingegneria Elettronica
>> Universita' di Roma "Tor Vergata"
>> Via del Politecnico, 1 - 00133 Roma - ITALY
>>
>> http://netgroup.uniroma2.it/Stefano_Salsano/
>>
>> E-mail  : [e-mail]
>> Cell.   : [phone]
>> Office  : (Tel.) [phone]  (Fax.) [phone]
>> *******************************************************************
> 
>