Re: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) Research Group

Joachim Fabini <> Fri, 27 November 2015 15:47 UTC

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To: Brian Trammell <>,
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From: Joachim Fabini <>
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Subject: Re: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) Research Group
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Hi Brian,

I support the charter, thanks for revising it, and full consent to
Ethan's statement: "landing pad" for the IMC community reads
excellent, nice wording.

One question (perhaps a minor rewording can help): is "collaborations
to share data supporting these measurements" equivalent to "defining
repositories and sharing meaningful methods, measurement results,
measurement context and limitations of data sets" as discussed in
Yokohama? It's not clear to me what "supporting these measurements"
refers to exactly. It could mean "sharing of successful measurement
methods and setups" rather than "sharing of measurement results".

Second, is it needed|meaningful to explicitly mention legal aspects
related to data sharing as within/outside of the MAP charter? Sharing
data means dealing with country-specifics, licensing terms, privacy
vs. usability, etc. As such, legal aspects are implicitly part of the
charter. My feeling is that MAP should propose guidelines for sharing
measurement data, and that such guidelines could be really helpful for
the community. However, the discussion on the ietf94-attendees mailing
list is a fair warning to be _very_ careful with discussions on any
legal aspects (in particular privacy). There's a high risk to lose
focus - perhaps we can delegate this subtask to the hrpc RG. ;)

many thanks,

On 26.11.2015 12:35, Brian Trammell wrote:
> Greetings, all,
> Following discussions at the HOPS proposed RG meetings in Prague
> and Yokohama, as well as at the RAIM workshop before Yokohama,
> we've revised the charter to reflect what we think the community
> wants out of such an RG. Note that given the slightly expanded
> scope of this charter, though, we've decided to rename the proposed
> RG to Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP).
> Comments on the proposed charter below are welcome at
> Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) RG 
> ===============================================
> Our Internet has grown into something that differs from what was
> envisioned. Its protocols sometimes operate in an environment other
> than than that for which they were designed. For instance, some
> network elements treat some protocols differently than others and
> those protocols themselves are sometimes reused and abused in ways
> initially unforseen. The Measurement and Analysis for Protocols
> (MAP) Research Group (RG) explores such phenomena by measurement 
> with the aim to inform protocol engineering and practice.
> Many protocol engineering efforts in a standards development
> context, as well as best practices for the operation of
> IETF-defined protocols, can benefit from insight provided by
> Internet measurements of various kinds. Likewise, Internet
> measurement research efforts can stand to gain from contacts with
> the IETF. The Measurement and Analysis for Protocol Engineering
> (MAP) Research Group aims to provide a forum for interchange
> between these two communities, supporting:
> - exchange of measurement-derived insight, - discussion of
> techniques for measurement relevant for protocol engineering and
> network operations, - collaborations to share data supporting these
> measurements, and - a "landing pad" in general for the Internet
> measurement community to introduce its efforts to the IETF
> Measurements of any layer of the Internet protocol stack or aspect
> of Internet operations are in-scope for the RG, provided they are
> relevant to protocol engineering work within the IETF, or the
> operation of IETF protocols.
> Membership ----------
> Membership in the MAP RG is open to all interested parties.
> Meetings --------
> The MAP RG will meet one to three times per year, as deemed
> necessary by the chairs and according to demand. At least one MAP
> RG meeting will be co-located with an IETF meeting per year. Given
> the MAP RG's charter to bridge the gap between Internet standards
> and measurement communities, the MAP RG may also meet colocated
> with relevant academic conferences or network operator forums, as
> appopriate.
> Meetings are by default open with open attendance and published
> proceedings, with remote participation and recording as provided by
> the meeting venue, according to the IRTF's IPR policy. This is
> always the case with at least one MAP RG meeting co-located with an
> IETF meeting noted above. However, as deemed necessary, the chairs
> may hold virtual or physical meetings with restricted attendance to
> discuss observations which cannot be shared openly, provided that
> some outcome of such a meeting may be openly shared with the
> community.
> Chairs ------
> Mirja Kühlewind <> Dave Plonka
> <>
> Many thanks,
> Brian
> _______________________________________________ hops mailing list 
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