Re: [HR-rt] Fwd: Notes from human rights review team november 4th IETF 103 - quick question
Beatrice Martini <mail@beatricemartini.it> Mon, 05 November 2018 16:17 UTC
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From: Beatrice Martini <mail@beatricemartini.it>
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 17:17:14 +0100
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To: Mallory Knodel <mallory@article19.org>
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Subject: Re: [HR-rt] Fwd: Notes from human rights review team november 4th IETF 103 - quick question
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Hello, Thank you for taking and sharing these notes! I found them greatly informative, especially not having had the opportunity to join in person this time. Looking forward to discussing further! Best, Beatrice On 5 November 2018 at 08:06, Mallory Knodel <mallory@article19.org> wrote: > Thanks Corinne, > > Another suggestion that's come later is to make the reviews more > findable. We could: > > * Link to the reviews uploaded to gitlab from hrpc.io > * Publish blogs on each review in hrpc.io > * Something else. > > Keen to find a way forward and operationalise this. > > -Mallory > > On 05/11/2018 12:59, Corinne Cath wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > Please find below my notesof our meeting yesterday. They're quite long > > but so was the meeting. > > > > Let me know if I missed anything. I also added them in a doc below. > > > > Best, > > > > Corinne > > > > > > *Notes Human rights review team 4 November * > > > > /Present: Niels, Mallory, Shivan, Juliana, Gurshabad, Corinne / > > > > > > > > _Agenda:_ > > > > /Reviews/ > > > > /Lessons learned/ > > > > /Guidelines draft updates (new version)/ > > > > /Gitlab/ > > > > /Reviews as rubberstamps (legitimacy of what we are doing?)/ > > > > > > > > /Reviews:/ > > > > Reviews done currently: > > > > 1) Marnu > > > > 2) Meeting venue > > > > 3) Suit > > > > 4) Quic > > > > 5) Ipwave > > > > 6) Regex > > > > > > Upcoming reviews: > > > > 1) captive ports > > > > 2) doh/dot > > > > 3) WebRTC and MDNS > > > > > > > > Question: How expanded do we make these reviews? NTo will do DoH/DoT in > > one, ESNI is a different discussion. Maybe we take the information from > > the DoH/DoT and turn it in an advocacy paper? > > > > > > > > Question: Why review an RFC? Because it seems that it would be useful > > to apply our thumb on the scale. The DoH/DoT discussion is not yet > > resolved. > > > > > > > > Question: Should we turn reviews into RFCs? Its dependent on the > > consensus in the group. > > > > If we turn the reviews into RFCs that might also signal legitimacy for a > > potential issue paper. > > > > > > > > Discussion: what it is the best strategy for doing advocacy at the IETF: > > issue paper or formal review. It’s easier to convince people with > > reviews than with an issue paper. But an issue paper might be relevant > > to do for the wider community. And/and approach. > > > > > > > > Discussion: the audience for the reviews is a reoccurring topic of > > debate in our meeting. > > > > > > > > Shivan mentions WebRTC and MDNS concerns: Mostly the draft is about > > privacy now but might have association and accessibility concerns. > > Right now, he has comments, unclear if it’s a good fit for a formal > review. > > > > > > > > /Lessons learnt:/ > > > > > > > > ·With big and influential drafts, the interview/inductive/ethnographic > > approach works well. > > > > · Gurshabad approach worked well (putting RFC 8280 next to the draft > > and match the different questions to different parts of the draft). See > > here for his approach: https://pad.riseup.net/p/fsEgWAHneHCS-keep > > > > > > > > /Guidelines draft updates (new version):/ > > > > 1) Are people engaging with it? > > > > 2) Are people still updating it? > > > > 3) Where is it going? > > > > > > > > There are some changes to the guidelines – people who do human rights > > reviews should be updating the RFC 8280. When it was written RFC 8280 > > was all fiction and speculative, it was done without doing any reviews. > > > > > > > > What is the projection for where this is going and how we frame it for > > people? > > > > > > > > Gurshabad suggested: > > > > - Mentioning that we do other stuff besides protocols > > > > - The preferable answers should be yes (and) to the questions (up for > > discussion) > > > > - Guidelines could have an appendix with different review examples. > > > > > > > > We should consider updating the guidelines with: > > > > - NTo approach > > > > - Gurshabad approach > > > > - Amelia approach > > > > > > > > Discussion: should we consider adding a “green consideration” for the > > environmental impacts of a protocol? > > > > > > > > We can start thinking about new frames and flavors to bring in for > > reviews, like we did with feminism: > > > > - UNGP > > > > - SDGs > > > > - Etc. > > > > > > /Gitlab:/ > > > > Discussion: do we do each or some reviews as a project on gitlab? Maybe > > for big or collaborative ones have an issue tracker and tickets? > > > > > > > > Because it would be a low entry place for interested people to have a > > look at what we do on a public repo and get involved. And means chairs > > and others don’t need to hassle people for what is going on with > > different reviews. > > > > > > > > Maybe ask on the list if this is a good idea to: > > > > - Open a ticket when you start you review > > > > - Close it when you finish > > > > - And upload it to gitlab > > > > > > > > /Reviews as rubberstamps (legitimacy of what we are doing?)/ > > > > Discussion: why should people care about our reviews? This came up in > > response to some of the reviews we did. Where people questioned why they > > should care about our reviews. IRTF chair suggested some changes the > > introduction language of reviews. Right now: We find people who are > > doing good work and review that (that’s why we review MLS). But It’s > > harder to get legitimacy for bad drafts and to get people to care (Regex) > > > > > > > > _To do:_ > > > > - Further conversation about issue paper on DoH/DoT > > > > - Bring some of the discussion points to the HRPC meeting > > > > - Talk more about who our audiences are for the reviews > > > > - Further develop the draft guidelines (add NTo, Gurshabad, and Amelia > > approaches) > > > > - Ask list what they think about doing reviews on gitlab > > > > - Give more thought about what our legitimacy model is for reviews > > > > * * > > > > > > > > -- > > Corinne Cath - Speth > > Ph..D. Candidate, Oxford Internet Institute & Alan Turing Institute > > > > Web: www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath > > <http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath> > > Email: ccath@turing.ac.uk <mailto:ccath@turing.ac.uk> & > > corinnecath@gmail.com <mailto:corinnecath@gmail.com> > > Twitter: @C_Cath > > > > _______________________________________________ > > HR-rt mailing list > > HR-rt@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hr-rt > > > > > -- > Mallory Knodel > Head of Digital :: article19.org > gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9 B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780 > > _______________________________________________ > HR-rt mailing list > HR-rt@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hr-rt > -- Beatrice Martini Twitter <https://twitter.com/beatricemartini> / Blog <http://beatricemartini.it/blog/> / Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/bbDuEn>
- [HR-rt] Fwd: Notes from human rights review team … Corinne Cath
- Re: [HR-rt] Fwd: Notes from human rights review t… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [HR-rt] Fwd: Notes from human rights review t… Beatrice Martini