IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-04.txt

Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> Tue, 17 September 2019 14:23 UTC

Return-Path: <lear@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674551208BC for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 07:23:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.5
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KzxoqHtrN0z8 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 07:23:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB4D71208B6 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 07:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4280; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1568730210; x=1569939810; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=vDAFGtDiRI7hQXSgAlr/la+rGD+kw5AFUbkI2dq2NDM=; b=jUKLvYtNXUYU8Fs6wVUCb6e2/ROSFd116ij+VMtUKgX7B31pCMbHvhSk RXWd38QQRBTzCD6a/tOByZ0CispB7Qo8p31VDh7ff801W/Oy6rMUN9c5R Eur+wW3E5J09sqznvHXmNR/+Vrj22nDjF2e9autm4VhaEQdauxX+EaPS5 o=;
X-Files: signature.asc : 488
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AjAAAK7IBd/xbLJq1mGgEBAQEBAgEBAQEHAgEBAQGBVgIBAQEBCwGBFYJCIBIqhCGIfIggh0OLUogGAgcBAQEJAwEBLwEBhD8Cgx83Bg4CAwkBAQQBAQECAQUEbYU6hUoBAQEBAgEjVgULCwQKCioCAlcGE4MiAYF7D614gTKFTIRvEIE0AYFQij+Bf4E4H4JMPodPMoImBJV0lnuCLIIugRORQBuNeosgo32DEQIEBgUCFYFoIoFYMxoIGxVlAYJBPpBLPgMwkHYBAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.64,516,1559520000"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="16861851"
Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 17 Sep 2019 14:23:25 +0000
Received: from [10.61.225.65] ([10.61.225.65]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x8HENOMi023473 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Sep 2019 14:23:25 GMT
From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <99988D9D-B17F-4BAF-9FDB-4998D4572B1D@cisco.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_656CE826-6C7A-49E8-B0BD-6779995628B6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha256"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\))
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:23:24 +0200
In-Reply-To: <CE7F61F5-B11C-4DE7-853B-3CA1AA0F3167@fugue.com>
Cc: Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net>, hrpc@irtf.org
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
References: <156862506643.28251.9847319195246702362@ietfa.amsl.com> <2927d15d-30a2-189b-7a68-dfb11f5f5be0@nielstenoever.net> <980ffdbd-79fa-96ca-541c-09107b550531@doria.org> <5FEE04EF-307F-4A11-9ED4-E9B7394527AC@cisco.com> <35d4da40-fd0b-2ee9-3cc1-0c250ae1e93a@doria.org> <2CAFB54D-8435-45D5-8996-DEE6175B48A3@fugue.com> <d98e744e-11ee-09b9-0d38-4f5150692ff0@nielstenoever.net> <B4E48D50-5A76-4056-BBE4-39FBDB4EA155@fugue.com> <21470bee-2db1-0571-dea1-00832e01fa8f@nielstenoever.net> <CE7F61F5-B11C-4DE7-853B-3CA1AA0F3167@fugue.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11)
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.225.65, [10.61.225.65]
X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/zqDCYlGOD5btVquUidh0m273klg>
Subject: Re: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-04.txt
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 14:23:32 -0000

Hi Ted,

> On 17 Sep 2019, at 16:11, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
> 
> When we get into situations like this, it might help to step back and ask the question: what is it that we want out of this document?  Why are we doing this?


Indeed.  Niels is in a hard spot because there are a variety of expectations about what this document should contain. Just between you and me there are differences.  And this boils down a bit to “Whose document is it anyway?”  RGs have some latitude on this, by the way: this document does not need to be a consensus view.  But if it is, then our differences should be explored.

To your point, and to the point Avri made, the document must be clear as to its purpose, and that is where I think some of the trouble lies now.  The “why” is a very important question because it provides some scoping as to audience and focus.  The way I put this is that there has to be some import to the work that is clear to the reader.

Eliot

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email