Re: [icnrg] I-D Action: draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch-05.txt

Dirk Kutscher <ietf@dkutscher.net> Mon, 31 August 2020 20:09 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf@dkutscher.net>
X-Original-To: icnrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: icnrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB873A1930 for <icnrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 13:09:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4WlfBajzsoRe for <icnrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 13:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C5C83A17B7 for <icnrg@irtf.org>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 13:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.69] ([31.16.44.80]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N9M5y-1kgcwg22fE-015GHa; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 22:08:42 +0200
From: "Dirk Kutscher" <ietf@dkutscher.net>
To: "David R. Oran" <daveoran@orandom.net>
Cc: "Akbar Rahman" <Akbar.Rahman@InterDigital.com>, icnrg@irtf.org
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 22:08:37 +0200
X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.2r5672)
Message-ID: <876F5B9F-9F55-4B81-8463-31206DBFF351@dkutscher.net>
In-Reply-To: <08BEEBA4-3CA8-441B-A4C1-7ED8EF8D8E27@orandom.net>
References: <159829391531.14858.3244605696257852399@ietfa.amsl.com> <8AF16F4F-CE6F-429F-B7B9-75B4C4D3284F@dkutscher.net> <MN2PR10MB31498B814111DF12CC5475AEE7540@MN2PR10MB3149.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> <08BEEBA4-3CA8-441B-A4C1-7ED8EF8D8E27@orandom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:6a4AbCeDtgXDTukW2Eq9qU/sIK0a2aNJDq2JZyDXQPqhcT1hjbO zsO+f9qSAUiGi/zZnEJXw2goHLF0rYIxI2M2TGY3z154+XJeY1b0nGmvLr6+w3XY9eEbgLn 38eljvwPJIQYsggGGttxJZgsmF9T01vY7Z7PvUNLELqnnS0o1NsCTSLQvly4uO0VjKioUkb OWfyMzE6WamenoX1kBCeA==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:KKnnCVZ4FU8=:GjAdKZt90Uq/LuVMFrTryZ jB5UqoEo12DNl/kcBozAnywa0oPr1v2oE3mzDDg/kT4Vd8JqQwx2SYwHA2+bUb8XQ389Sn4Xj kSwOa+YI5bLvl5uvT7IFE75Mk2sCW8S0QdkEELic8Yq5IZD4tJGVZskvrhCf/pAjXWopmYqSn GzFnEcgErvadvyliGDRhhNzj26SJddl2s1SysCN7WqSPr0F6EBtQfKtU5TX+u2Av1+AnA6c1G cJkgcZ8FCuVG4SK/BIi+BBcP90UMSAafBhHgRT1/pD3fS8VSJUzjAqHqt80HQ8u5XX9fGmime 9AQaEB1dhEaaE8dOhaxR/8YXwpB1R+y99FWTTAf/F+MM4Cj0pmh636jQtRI4G3Fjxd2aQQuBE TtRWaiRXZgLDEvfumjBsYrtpKiHt6jOUUmjJh8aJkBjIgGCoFteGaKozZBKranClZ/wF4zAck gJaNbRNTEExLKpc+GfdqhOxtqhyNNm3toWIqTe8V9JqDNmENeckPJ79L+nyn6ZtbOjUWaijIP 3vuOl1V4ziuSICs1XBsCVDKpt3dZZho/nHESzB+GJSSbbPA+2Kd0L78mCxwQljne05Kq9gwdp 7jEh8bTOtz6QU5l6ryHwLst680A6RnBg4tRjICTxuVn6ms42fyaLvcNwauQ4dldTt1pgHbtf9 NyMmG4rZhNBju0nRGSm5sBnO3o3ejkFZWB27kCuHqhOZHVSyimh3V3Ph4prBywmPKVXOf4HAV FjyxtNDJuG648qJlMPncVnC/qq27QgDxGG6kAtAR7cZsxFsivpLY8177sdX2bmMz2JZd9m7ZB u2jsyK+SNAcJ1bCLILRgxI7Df5gQkWrFdwH2egf7X/7xQMb/TWqtVbSv5nKUXuZJ7c8vXs/
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/icnrg/VuZ4UvOvtY3a5TjuspFxfaNpN_I>
Subject: Re: [icnrg] I-D Action: draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch-05.txt
X-BeenThere: icnrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Information-Centric Networking research group discussion list <icnrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/icnrg>, <mailto:icnrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/icnrg/>
List-Post: <mailto:icnrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:icnrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg>, <mailto:icnrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 20:09:10 -0000

Thanks, Akbar and everyone who has checked the latest revision.

My conclusion is that Akbar's suggested changes are somewhat optional. 
Since there have not been additional comments, I'd say that we do not 
necessarily need an update (unless Dave really wants to provide one).

Thanks,
Dirk

On 26 Aug 2020, at 16:37, David R. Oran wrote:

> On 26 Aug 2020, at 10:23, Akbar Rahman wrote:
>
>> Hi Dirk/Dave,
>>
>>
>> I had read it a while ago, and have just re-read it now.  Overall, a 
>> very nice draft and I support progressing it.
>>
>> Just two suggestions for editorial clarification:
>>
>> - "TCP/IP" is referred to in various sections, and then afterwards 
>> the "IP protocol stack" is mentioned once in section 3.2.  Wouldn't 
>> it be better to use "IP protocol stack" as the generic reference 
>> instead of "TCP/IP".  This is because one is never sure if by 
>> "TCP/IP" you also mean to include UDP or not?  And now with the 
>> rolling out of QUIC/HTTP (which is UDP based) this distinction 
>> becomes more important.  This can become a minor or major point of 
>> confusion depending on the reader's background.  I've gotten this 
>> feedback myself on other drafts that I have written.
>>
> I haven’t encountered this problem, especially as I’m using it in 
> a mostly historical context, but I get the point. I’m not sure 
> “stack” is the right word either, since I definitely am not 
> talking about anything at the application layer, like HTTP, SMTP, 
> et.al. I’ll give this some thought and if I can excise the explicit 
> “TCP” reference without getting too wordy e.g. (“Internet and 
> transport layer protocols”), or just get away with “IP”, I will 
> make the change.
>
>> - Is it wise to entitle section 7.7 as "Strawman principles for an 
>> ICN QoS architecture" since strawman usually has a negative 
>> implication (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man ) ?
>>
> …which is intentional in the sense that they are loose principles, 
> for possible replacement in a “real” architecture, and may fall 
> over if pushed even moderately hard. I’m happy to keep this 
> connotation to ensure people approach this with the right degree of 
> skepticism.
>
> Thanks for the comments!
> DaveO.
>
>>
>>
>> /Akbar
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: icnrg <icnrg-bounces@irtf.org> On Behalf Of Dirk Kutscher
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 5:07 AM
>> To: icnrg@irtf.org
>> Subject: Re: [icnrg] I-D Action: draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch-05.txt
>>
>> Hello ICNRG,
>>
>> Dave has kindly updated the QoS Architecture Considerations draft, 
>> responding to earlier comments from Eve during IRSG review.
>>
>> I was wondering what people think of this revision. Check out the 
>> diff to see the changes.
>>
>> If we are generally happy with it, I'd like to pass it back to the 
>> IRSG on Monday, August 31st.
>>
>> As a reminder, this is an individual submission, not a RG document as 
>> most of our RFCs-to-be. Still, any feedback would be appreciated, of 
>> course.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 Aug 2020, at 20:31, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>>
>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>>> directories.
>>> This draft is a work item of the Information-Centric Networking RG 
>>> of
>>> the IRTF.
>>>
>>>         Title           : Considerations in the development of a QoS
>>> Architecture for CCNx-like ICN protocols
>>>         Author          : Dave Oran
>>> Filename        : draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch-05.txt
>>> Pages           : 28
>>> Date            : 2020-08-24
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>    This is a position paper.  It documents the author's personal 
>>> views
>>>    on how Quality of Service (QoS) capabilities ought to be
>>> accommodated
>>>    in ICN protocols like CCNx or NDN which employ flow-balanced
>>>    Interest/Data exchanges and hop-by-hop forwarding state as their
>>>    fundamental machinery.  It argues that such protocols demand a
>>>    substantially different approach to QoS from that taken in 
>>> TCP/IP,
>>>    and proposes specific design patterns to achieve both
>>> classification
>>>    and differentiated QoS treatment on both a flow and aggregate
>>> basis.
>>>    It also considers the effect of caches in addition to memory, CPU
>>> and
>>>    link bandwidth as a resource that should be subject to explicitly
>>>    unfair resource allocation.  The proposed methods are intended to
>>>    operate purely at the network layer, providing the primitives
>>> needed
>>>    to achieve both transport and higher layer QoS objectives.  It
>>>    explicitly excludes any discussion of Quality of Experience (QoE)
>>>    which can only be assessed and controlled at the application 
>>> layer
>>> or
>>>    above.
>>>
>>>    This document is not a product of the IRTF Information-Centric
>>>    Networking Research Group (ICNRG) but has been through formal 
>>> last
>>>    call and has the support of the participants in the research 
>>> group
>>>    for publication as an individual submission.
>>>
>>>
>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch/
>>>
>>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch-05
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch-05
>>>
>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-oran-icnrg-qosarch-05
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>>> tools.ietf.org.
>>>
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> icnrg mailing list
>>> icnrg@irtf.org
>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> icnrg mailing list
>> icnrg@irtf.org
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg
>> [Banner]
>>
>> [Banner]<https://idcc.me/3g4fCOg>
>>
>> ABI - Cloud Gaming: Enabling a Next Generation Gaming and Streaming 
>> Paradigm<https://idcc.me/3g4fCOg>
>> This e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity 
>> to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is 
>> privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure 
>> to anyone other than its intended recipient. Unintended transmission 
>> shall not constitute waiver of any privilege or confidentiality 
>> obligation. If you received this communication in error, please do 
>> not review, copy or distribute it, notify me immediately by email, 
>> and delete the original message and any attachments. Unless expressly 
>> stated in this e-mail, nothing in this message or any attachment 
>> should be construed as a digital or electronic signature.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> icnrg mailing list
>> icnrg@irtf.org
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg
>
> DaveO
>
> _______________________________________________
> icnrg mailing list
> icnrg@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg