Re: [Idr] WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-sendholdtimer-03 (3/23 to 4/12/2024)

Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> Mon, 25 March 2024 19:26 UTC

Return-Path: <jhaas@pfrc.org>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85FBC14F6AA for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:26:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.908
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0UoZozbAlynM for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:26:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F777C14F69D for <idr@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (172-125-100-52.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [172.125.100.52]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0EF7B1E039; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:26:32 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E42928BE-9865-40AB-87AB-A15E6244A787"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\))
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
In-Reply-To: <ekprce6utq55znihvwmuhshynoxy5lxyusbsrefx5ui2hbatmw@qzdu3yupao4z>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:26:31 -0400
Cc: Sue Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Message-Id: <28214604-7847-40A2-9F4D-2CC83E3336B2@pfrc.org>
References: <DM6PR08MB48574BAABAAC203EA2F9F139B3312@DM6PR08MB4857.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <z7xyp2afi6eqobgl5vpvl6as2yit6lyv3ye4so727gzobl4gdt@jp4akmw5lh7b> <09C3AD6C-E195-454B-8DBB-81EFE0E01E22@pfrc.org> <ekprce6utq55znihvwmuhshynoxy5lxyusbsrefx5ui2hbatmw@qzdu3yupao4z>
To: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/2WlZCkvWFwwO8p8bb3voe2RYAdY>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-sendholdtimer-03 (3/23 to 4/12/2024)
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 19:26:37 -0000


> On Mar 25, 2024, at 1:36 PM, Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa> wrote:
> 
> I think the fundamental issue with the text (and other similar parts or
> RFC 4271) is that sending the NOTIFICATION is mandatory, and must
> (obviously) happen before the socket is closed, leading to the naive
> interpretation that the send must complete before the remainder of the
> actions can proceed.
> 
> Expecting future readers to read this as "oh, I should enqueue this to
> my write-thread, drop the handle (or future, or whatever), and proceed
> to kill the socket" is asking too much.

And thus you come to the crux of the issue.

Anywhere we say "send a notification" would be vulnerable to stalling if we treated it as "... and wait until it's actually put at least into TCP locally before closing the connection".  

It might be worth writing this case up as an errata, especially since there's discussion about taking BGP forward in the standards track.

However, I wouldn't recommend trying to special case the correctness of this in the sendholdtimer.  That's more ocean than you want to boil here.

-- Jeff