Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom
Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Tue, 30 June 2020 20:48 UTC
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Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 22:47:59 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom
Message-ID: <20200630204759.GA16721@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <20200629191302.GA34130@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <CAA=duU2MerL3=4xz0raNqhD5XSpwRHeWnD_BV54hruGyvcAJDQ@mail.gmail.com> <20200629215721.GC34130@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <CAOj+MMHbHLfCAEAynDM-NOx2j1ptertH2=byei_uwUBQDU3+pQ@mail.gmail.com> <4b974496-c910-28ca-7c5d-5936f83c5b24@gmail.com> <EBB34E90-DF76-45C2-B599-F833A41304AA@gmail.com> <F8CB3FB4-1129-47CB-8436-8D81FE9A420D@akamai.com> <6C1DB30D-229C-43FA-8A0E-6A7B03CE1B55@gmail.com> <4C3DDB68-C8FA-47EC-AE39-59674B878C9A@gmail.com> <3A92C349CEC2D47DBAB4B612@PSB>
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On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 04:17:11PM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > And, in that regard, the (admittedly rather simplistic) "no more > than two actually on the Nomcom from one company" rule is > attractive in two ways, the need to take a conservative view of > relationships like subsidiaries and significant ownership > notwithstanding. > One is that it provides the IETF some > protection against a hypothetical company (or corporate culture) > that would encourage or reward people for getting on the Nomcom, Uhmmm... is that big evil company called IETF ? Because i think we here all do encourage each other to volunteer for NomCom. And before corona there was also a nice dinner reward included from IETF. > or participating in particular decisions one there, for reasons > we might consider nefarious. IMHO the main reason why members of one company rightfully often promote job candidates from the same company is just a sepcial case of more likely knowing and having worked with that person and/or being able to better inquire about that persons suitability for the job. The same though is true for NomCom members working for a tiny company but being involved with a larger loyalty perimeter of people they worked with. Only that that second case is not discriminated against by NomCom rules. And i think we already start being unhappy about NomCom members way short of nefarious. Simple "lazy" "i have no ideas about what is important in a person, i will just vote for the guy from the same company as myself" is not fitting to the job given. But again: this is not limited to being in the same company. > The other is that, even if the > reasons there are many volunteers from one company and/or many > of its (or its subsidiaries, etc.) in the leadership and the > reason for that is that the organizational culture includes > public-spirited participation (with no company involvement in > actual decision-making), it looks bad to outsiders trying to > examine the IETF and asking questions about who is in control. Yeah, well, if IETF would want to live up to its ideal instead of (as you said) making the rules just "look good", then even individuals working for large companies would be given the benefit of the doubt as participating as individuals whereever it counts. > I don't believe that the two person rule provides enough > protection against either situation, but it is lots better than > nothing and I despair of our being able to do significantly > better without side effects that are worse. I like the idea of examining what would happen if we limited per-country NomCom membership to two. How would that decrease diversity ? Cheers Toerless
- List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom NomCom Chair 2020
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Brian E Carpenter
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Michael Richardson
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Salz, Rich
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Rob Sayre
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Melinda Shore
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Brian E Carpenter
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Salz, Rich
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Michael Richardson
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Toerless Eckert
- RE: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Salz, Rich
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Andrew G. Malis
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Toerless Eckert
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Robert Raszuk
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom John Levine
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Melinda Shore
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Jeff Tantsura
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Toerless Eckert
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Toerless Eckert
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Joel Halpern
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Donald Eastlake
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Toerless Eckert
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Michael StJohns
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Toerless Eckert
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom John C Klensin
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Stewart Bryant
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Stewart Bryant
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Stewart Bryant
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Joel Halpern
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Salz, Rich
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Michael StJohns
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Stewart Bryant
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Stewart Bryant
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Salz, Rich
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Michael StJohns
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Michael StJohns
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Yoav Nir
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom John C Klensin
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Toerless Eckert
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: List of volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom Brian E Carpenter