BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / LLM .. is there a FAQ?
Job Snijders <job@sobornost.net> Mon, 18 August 2025 12:50 UTC
Return-Path: <job@instituut.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC0F55655B8 for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Aug 2025 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.018
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.017, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=instituut-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k0MM_SgFtWUS for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Aug 2025 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb33.google.com (mail-yb1-xb33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8E5555655AF for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Aug 2025 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb33.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e934a3fa4f1so1098491276.1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Aug 2025 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=instituut-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1755521436; x=1756126236; darn=ietf.org; h=content-disposition:mime-version:message-id:subject:to:from:date :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/mXs8Ea2w+S+8D064jBv8FwCCMRhqGoJFwZN3zQTslM=; b=Y6A2tbbvMqNFE+BscReaFW13KDx29USJ4x8kdJ6fYdrzhSlx4MhsmbcYJ+BszloFyX 9C4YdViBhuSqkwKgu6U3EPK+fgJqqua3HYeFIxTnJFghCPdgrjpy3I3pvWobeGGyKXdR 7KzZsUTMtg833pgWrvby0CF8cQ0u36gXyNjl7h9YQD6CT5ZSKUl6126A4BYA4iwIMzxZ Jq3FMXnA8qTRNxn9KdnnZUdOdrSxD2vhVtxDo0R9S1xnxHTsnhm184iwlQg24EjjrEYe 3COqTvgB1ah86cAMcGEEHrPAI99brzznJD5dS7KUyCYBc4yfQfwio4e52a90RQIInDjG eYOg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1755521436; x=1756126236; h=content-disposition:mime-version:message-id:subject:to:from:date :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/mXs8Ea2w+S+8D064jBv8FwCCMRhqGoJFwZN3zQTslM=; b=noqnM6vy1Hn9URJu+d/ChbkDjYY5QOd61Z7pH9/Pgwuhj1NaZHV/8HF7075cGbnF43 yz1mFHxYpIAOfZyz8HYVY247SMK1q2eviqOYwpPm+a1tNTgi0XJrYuqsSo2su+tQXeJV oq6hq6iaZfangAAVwJXAD1YoQ4P+TUkoGEMSIPaDLd1aG4wLwqk7qI/J1+PM4/clZ9PM PH7RHZJx3zZ3+2bJm7Xq3cyGlWvtAXCyvayBJAw9MiR/+w/YeVQgX/3X2m4xKkUvAAap QMuQVYKkpZQy/rsdbIu/t4EebHLj9gF3xVwrBIOIHXNVCAooZduh7As7PWbidZsJxtZv wh3A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzLkZyk5GUvj4nEKPsNe18KqZJ7qBnXsYm1EITMQ72N3QRf9mf+ iwMLvaJpIIs2tuCQYOaU3DiR/AlXF4qI5ty4VRzH4abnlE1z+/MqzEZUFs9Of9wEbRctjsQl5MF F1ZyY9YQ=
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctlUuEI0ego+bu2I6WDoqEKoQPJORRiMCvJhXHn9DfMab0s+n+psHixWYK4rKQ L4NGeAfK8i6jQIcQh6w6E8FNvK4cWretBddkZwcgOn1EwmJWbQrnxQuUev8AVoXSt+uyfo/Uk9i vvD+fdhidBlSVo9D2O1Psqs6viqLLNQv0to9FjOl1MYH5Kj5FE9kyeKV66HWLI1b44NLwwlcl3z ASs06WRC5b5TrN2jcDNGqqfbjYXzwMSoxtX2SlNaTt+hOuW//cyoJ8X+VtGRvjPr9sF3s+QxiTd 5r/H7fc77BvJcgVGqFVc2eo4unpoCND20MWboLhFwKVk34yck1Ttf0qaS65BO6PmjTXK6AnSep+ 47sgyj4HieX5KoIEMEJqQcCQOWHiqdc99KuvZlcA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFuRR7nc7iaeTthlD/h7dA8Bua0BmsMCibsq5WmdkRlgC72Y/UdiXVaIs/b67VjHqP+I/3xyA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1704:b0:e94:da2f:291a with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e94da2f30cdmr1528679276.33.1755521435485; Mon, 18 Aug 2025 05:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from anton.sobornost.net (anton.sobornost.net. [192.147.168.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3f1490d57ef6-e9332851152sm3104743276.28.2025.08.18.05.50.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 18 Aug 2025 05:50:34 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 12:50:31 +0000
From: Job Snijders <job@sobornost.net>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / LLM .. is there a FAQ?
Message-ID: <aKMhl8l1zjs_Q7CX@anton.sobornost.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Erik Bais
Message-ID-Hash: LGLNVTFSX4URYSVD5PZYLCBCKUEO2HLA
X-Message-ID-Hash: LGLNVTFSX4URYSVD5PZYLCBCKUEO2HLA
X-MailFrom: job@instituut.net
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ietf.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF-Discussion. This is the most general IETF mailing list, intended for discussion of technical, procedural, operational, and other topics for which no dedicated mailing lists exist." <ietf.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/ZAwDLUWAQ-iU2u6vVpw5IeW7g-E>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ietf-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ietf-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-leave@ietf.org>
Dear all, The IETF is committed to making all text available with a permissive license and with appropriate attribution. A fantastic objective I wholeheartedly support. As I understand things, generative AI/LLMs, by their nature, are likely unable to provide the necessary assurances that the generated material is compatible with the provisions of BCP 78 (RFC5378) or that the original authors are properly attributed. I can see that AI tooling is helping some folks with study & analysis, (which is great for them!), however I am not sure that submitting an internet-draft to the IETF that was (partially) generated using AI would be a wise path to follow: I recently spotted someone who contemplated submitting a 33,000+ word LLM-generated I-D for review to a working group. The machine certainly was not a subject matter expert - but at first glance it all looked legit, if such submissions were to happen they'd have the potential to take up a lot of time resources. I personally would recommend working groups against adoption of AI generated text (mostly because of the potential for issues related to intellectual property). IMHO, handwritten originals are the way to go when using the IETF publication venue! :) The FreeBSD project recently added some clarifications, result: https://reviews.freebsd.org/differential/changeset/?ref=1420532 discussion: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D50650?id=156417 Other entities also provided documentation on the topic: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/legal/generative-ai https://www.apache.org/legal/generative-tooling.html Is it documented somewhere for IETF newcomers that internet-draft submissions should not contain LLM/AI generated text? I imagine that similar clarifications for the IETF context along the lines of "text _about_ AI is fine, but text generated by AI has legal implications" would be very helpful. Where can I point newcomers on this topic? Kind regards, Job
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Colin Perkins
- BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / LLM .… Job Snijders
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Joe Touch
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Job Snijders
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Jeffrey Walton
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Joe Touch
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… John Levine
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Simon Josefsson
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Job Snijders
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Job Snijders
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… John R Levine
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… John R Levine
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Michael De Roover
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Jay Daley
- Re: BCP 78 policy / copyright / Generative AI / L… Arturo Servin