Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B in Carl's report
Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com> Mon, 06 September 2004 09:32 UTC
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:19:51 +0200
From: Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com>
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To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
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Subject: Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B in Carl's report
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Just to clarify my opinion: I think that B is the desirable end state, for the reasons Harald gives, but that A with a solemn commitment to migrate to B is the best way to get started quickly. Incidentally, it occurs to me that starting with A and migrating to B doesn't exclude a further migration to C later. Brian Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > Following up on Leslie's mail of Friday, and a number of posters (Brian, > Scott, Margaret) who have said something on the order of "I think I > prefer A or B, but I don't understand the difference"..... my particular > perspective..... in order to avoid misunderstandings, I'll define a few > terms first, as used in this memo: > > - Bylaws (a bylaw?) is a document that tells how a formally constituted > organization expects itself to behave. > > - An MOU is a document that tells the reader how two organizations are > supposed to behave in relation to each other. > > - An IETF (Procedure) BCP is a document that tells the IETF how the IETF > expects the IETF to behave. So it may be something like a bylaw for the > IETF. > > In the "Option A" scenario, we say that we have BCPs defining the > function - IETF makes agreements with itself. This is necessary. We also > say that it is sufficient. The key phrase from the report: > > o The responsibilities that the IETF Administrative Director > would have with respect to IETF activities would be > determined by standard IETF processes (BCPs, RFCs, etc.) > > These BCPs are the IETF's expectations on IETF behaviour. They cannot > constrain the behaviour of ISOC, unless ISOC makes an explict commitment > by Board resolution to do so, as it has done for its roles in the > standards process, the Nomcom process and IPR issues. > > ISOC's behaviour continues to be governed by the ISOC bylaws and > articles of incorporation (published as RFC 2134 and RFC 2135), as > subsequently modified by ISOC. > (current ISOC bylaws are at > <http://www.isoc.org/isoc/general/trustees/bylaws.shtml>) > (note - RFC 2031 describes the ISOC-IETF relationship, as it was > understood at the time. This document is not an MoU.) > > In the "Option B" scenario, we say that this is not sufficient to give > the transparency, clarity and stability of relationship that we desire. > In addition to what ISOC's bylaws and board resolutions say now, we want > commitments of ISOC. > > This commitment can take several forms, some of which are mentioned as > mechanisms in the consultant report: > > - Declarations in the form of changes to ISOC bylaws to enshrine ISOC's > commitment to the IETF support function (Mechanism 1) > > - Promises from ISOC to the IETF community in the form of an MoU between > ISOC and the IETF (Mechanism 5) > > - Changes to the ISOC governance structure so that it is more likely > that any potential conflict will be detected early, and that action will > be taken to fix it in a manner that is satisfactory to the IETF > (mechanisms 2, 3, 4, 6, 7) > > I, personally, think that if we want a stable, long term relationship, > something more than the "Scenario A" status quo is necessary. I have > great trust in the commitment to IETF of Lynn as President and Fred as > Chairman of the Board. But ISOC has had 2 Presidents and several > Chairmen of the Board while I have been watching. Enshrining the > prinicples that Lynn and Fred are supporting in text that will endure > beyond their tenure seems appropriate to me. > > Harald > > PS: This note is NOT a statement of opinion about the relative merit of > scenarios A, B, C and D. > It is only about scenarios A and B. > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- On the difference between scenarios A and B in Ca… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… John C Klensin
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Carl Malamud
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Paul Hoffman / VPNC
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… John C Klensin
- RE: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Thomas Gal
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Leslie Daigle
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Geoff Huston
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Paul Vixie
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… scott bradner
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Fred Baker
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Erik Huizer