On the difference between scenarios A and B in Carl's report
Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Mon, 06 September 2004 07:51 UTC
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA09669; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 03:51:04 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C4EKW-0000mX-6O; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 03:54:24 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1C4EEN-0003K8-0y; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 03:48:03 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1C4EDD-00038T-RL for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 03:46:52 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA09095 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 03:46:50 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([158.38.152.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C4EGP-0000fF-Eh for ietf@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 03:50:09 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC6761BA7 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:46:19 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03404-06 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:46:17 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from halvestr-w2k02.emea.cisco.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3AC061AD4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:46:16 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 09:32:02 +0200
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Message-ID: <129F9C12EAF23C28123178C5@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.5 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: On the difference between scenarios A and B in Carl's report
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Following up on Leslie's mail of Friday, and a number of posters (Brian,
Scott, Margaret) who have said something on the order of "I think I prefer
A or B, but I don't understand the difference"..... my particular
perspective..... in order to avoid misunderstandings, I'll define a few
terms first, as used in this memo:
- Bylaws (a bylaw?) is a document that tells how a formally constituted
organization expects itself to behave.
- An MOU is a document that tells the reader how two organizations are
supposed to behave in relation to each other.
- An IETF (Procedure) BCP is a document that tells the IETF how the IETF
expects the IETF to behave. So it may be something like a bylaw for the
IETF.
In the "Option A" scenario, we say that we have BCPs defining the function
- IETF makes agreements with itself. This is necessary. We also say that it
is sufficient. The key phrase from the report:
o The responsibilities that the IETF Administrative Director
would have with respect to IETF activities would be
determined by standard IETF processes (BCPs, RFCs, etc.)
These BCPs are the IETF's expectations on IETF behaviour. They cannot
constrain the behaviour of ISOC, unless ISOC makes an explict commitment by
Board resolution to do so, as it has done for its roles in the standards
process, the Nomcom process and IPR issues.
ISOC's behaviour continues to be governed by the ISOC bylaws and articles
of incorporation (published as RFC 2134 and RFC 2135), as subsequently
modified by ISOC.
(current ISOC bylaws are at
<http://www.isoc.org/isoc/general/trustees/bylaws.shtml>)
(note - RFC 2031 describes the ISOC-IETF relationship, as it was understood
at the time. This document is not an MoU.)
In the "Option B" scenario, we say that this is not sufficient to give the
transparency, clarity and stability of relationship that we desire. In
addition to what ISOC's bylaws and board resolutions say now, we want
commitments of ISOC.
This commitment can take several forms, some of which are mentioned as
mechanisms in the consultant report:
- Declarations in the form of changes to ISOC bylaws to enshrine ISOC's
commitment to the IETF support function (Mechanism 1)
- Promises from ISOC to the IETF community in the form of an MoU between
ISOC and the IETF (Mechanism 5)
- Changes to the ISOC governance structure so that it is more likely that
any potential conflict will be detected early, and that action will be
taken to fix it in a manner that is satisfactory to the IETF (mechanisms 2,
3, 4, 6, 7)
I, personally, think that if we want a stable, long term relationship,
something more than the "Scenario A" status quo is necessary. I have great
trust in the commitment to IETF of Lynn as President and Fred as Chairman
of the Board. But ISOC has had 2 Presidents and several Chairmen of the
Board while I have been watching. Enshrining the prinicples that Lynn and
Fred are supporting in text that will endure beyond their tenure seems
appropriate to me.
Harald
PS: This note is NOT a statement of opinion about the relative merit of
scenarios A, B, C and D.
It is only about scenarios A and B.
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- On the difference between scenarios A and B in Ca… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… John C Klensin
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Carl Malamud
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Paul Hoffman / VPNC
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… John C Klensin
- RE: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Thomas Gal
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Leslie Daigle
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Geoff Huston
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Paul Vixie
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… scott bradner
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Fred Baker
- Re: On the difference between scenarios A and B i… Erik Huizer