Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Sun, 20 July 2008 18:59 UTC
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:00:07 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings
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References: <043101c8e8ec$fa67c650$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <200807181819.m6IIJCIR025085@mta6.iomartmail.com> <048401c8e924$ab2ce600$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <XFE-SJC-211BBtNtxy0000033b7@xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com> <4881CFF5.3090008@piuha.net> <1EFD708A-8509-42A6-BBC9-824C27A7DCFA@multicasttech.com> <6BA8110C64663A4908066554@p3.JCK.COM> <48821469.4050907@employees.org> <20080719191556.567F03A6A32@core3.amsl.com> <48826DC0.8000307@dcrocker.net> <01MXCGZDHDXW000078@mauve.mrochek.com> <48828D3B.4050006@gmail.com> <01MXCL869C4K00007A@mauve.mrochek.com> <4882A2AD.8040405@dcrocker.net> <013501c8ea6a$271e28a0$6501a8c0@china.huawei.com> <01MXDEUGJPR400007A@mauve.mrochek.com> <043101c8e8ec$fa67c650$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <200807181819.m6IIJCIR025085@mta6.iomartmail.com> <048401c8e924$ab2ce600$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <XFE-SJC-211BBtNtxy0000033b7@xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com> <4881CFF5.3090008@piuha.net> <1EFD708A-8509-42A6-BBC9-824C27A7DCFA@multicasttech.com> <6BA8110C64663A4908066554@p3.JCK.COM> <48821469.4050907@employees.org> <20080719191556.567F03A6A32@core3.amsl.com> <48826DC0.8000307@dcrocker.net> <20080719231903.GB64676@verdi> <043101c8e8ec$fa67c650$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <200807181819.m6IIJCIR025085@mta6.iomartmail.com> <048401c8e924$ab2ce600$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <XFE-SJC-211BBtNtxy0000033b7@xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com> <4881CFF5.3090008@piuha.net> <1EFD708A-8509-42A6-BBC9-824C27A7DCFA@multicasttech.com> <6BA8110C64663A4908066554@p3.JCK.COM> <48821469.4050907@employees.org> <20080719191556.567F03A6A32@core3.amsl.com> <48826DC0.8000307@dcrocker.net> <01MXCGZDHDXW000078@mauve.mrochek.com> <48828D3B.4050006@gmail.com> <01MXCL869C4K00007A@mauve.mrochek.com> <4882A2AD.8040405@dcrocker.net> <013501c8ea6a$271e28a0$6501a8c0@china.huawei.com> <p06250100c4a9226eac87@[75.145.176.242]> <20080720180711.438503A6876@core3.amsl.com>
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--On Sunday, July 20, 2008 2:07 PM -0400 Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote: > People seem to be forgetting that all I-D submissions used to > be processed an a person. The automated tool is very new. > When the I-D were processed by hand, the cut-off was necessary > for the Secretariat to handle the spike of submissions just > prior to the meeting. Look at the statistics report by IETF > chair in their plenary presentations for the last few years -- > the meetings cause a huge spike in I-D submissions. Remember > back when the I-D submissions were handled by hand, it could > be days after the submission that the document actually > appeared in the repository. > > Now that we have the tool, it is a reasonable time to see if > we still need this cut-off rule. I have put the topic on the > agenda for the IESG discussions in Dublin. Russ, Thanks. FWIW, it appears from various notes on this thread that we actually have two separate cutoff rules, with one having effectively hidden the other. One of those rules is the two and three week hard cutoff originally imposed to protect the Secretariat, as you have described above. That rule came with a "AD exception" procedure, which seems to have gotten lost over the years ("lost" == "current ADs didn't know about it"). Whether that exception model was a good idea or not relative to other things ADs could do with their time is a separate question -- it did exist and, for better or worse, it was _very_ rarely used. The other rule is an RFC 2418 rule that says "should ... two weeks..." (note lower-case "should"). It carries with it provision for exceptions by WG chairs and some guidance as to whether those exceptions should be granted. Many of the recent comments in this thread (including, I fear, mine) have confused the two. It appears to me that most of the suggestions could be accommodated by looking at the first set of rules (the posting cutoffs) only, either eliminating them entirely or cutting them to the point needed to assure a level playing field for those who are forced into manual posting by deficiencies in the automatic posting tool. > I see this an opportunity for evolution and incremental > improvement. Indeed. And a very welcome and much appreciated one. john _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Adrian Farrel
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Russ Housley
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Adrian Farrel
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings James M. Polk
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Jari Arkko
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Scott Brim
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Scott Brim
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Russ Housley
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Jari Arkko
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Dave Crocker
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings John Leslie
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Dave Crocker
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Dave Crocker
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Pete Resnick
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Russ Housley
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Dave Crocker
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Spencer Dawkins
- RE: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Eric Gray
- RE: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Ned Freed
- RE: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Eric Gray
- RE: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings ned+ietf