Re: Split the IANA functions?
Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Tue, 07 January 2014 16:29 UTC
Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8441ADF98 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 08:29:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S-_uxOaW3RDB for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 08:29:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-la0-x22e.google.com (mail-la0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E611ADF72 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 08:29:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id eh20so283719lab.19 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 08:29:05 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=HOvfg3i/O49/mipn6mBo3OWgofyf2HMkdCtBA6l1aFs=; b=hM5wgBLmGFdFScMTCkU4p0QQGY/3Mir3CoE+mV3XEs9E0oYDYd6eRSBtWl1yahAX0X MNauU2sd3q3owZMAIZmTbnlKW6q7LbavuESgz+uAwNjDgUSW2oD7OwR4S1zhEVteet5W 1sUQ/3X48Idr/GFiKxMy0hVVnmtDX7RRSSdCBMr/Edh1tIVjafRf0qggLuSXyOp7KzvQ aBYvoZsmzvSuupl/sQcE05MNmI0ueQXutR7hi5q6PWa0DsThgdr2T1xEyKgaJYaOl7fM pRYopF/W/+ebw16/xnZCucUDZy+M0ESKGOhf4f+mYNbmQsCKR59S/cMieDGbqULMTITo MRxQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.112.138.70 with SMTP id qo6mr3746441lbb.34.1389112144978; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 08:29:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.112.37.172 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 08:29:04 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20140107144412.GB11068@mx1.yitter.info>
References: <CAMm+LwinAb6+7BoMzwBWyu63vofndxK9VY6DSNN0Ykza4SxuMQ@mail.gmail.com> <52CB0010.5010407@gmail.com> <CAMm+LwhN8+z9q4KQXVY9bWA6TAqxx1=Qg0OUfK=VGCSDg5uWEA@mail.gmail.com> <DD618936-0D13-41F1-8D89-2E3171D864B5@istaff.org> <52CB31F4.3090703@cs.tcd.ie> <52CB987A.20300@cisco.com> <20140107144412.GB11068@mx1.yitter.info>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 11:29:04 -0500
Message-ID: <CAMm+Lwiqtsp13NeR0kXeWaN3SAn7856_5VtopwMP1JWw0ohzVg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Split the IANA functions?
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0112c02cf469e304ef63df54"
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 16:29:17 -0000
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>wrote: > On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 07:02:34AM +0100, Eliot Lear wrote: > > That there is a single root is both a technical AND a > > political decision. > > I have to disagree with this. The uniqueness of the root is not a > political decision. It's a fact of mathematics. DNS is a tree. > There's one root. > It didn't have to be a tree, it could have been something else, we could still change it. You might think that there is no other possible technical solution but that is a failure of imagination rather than a fact. It might even be the best technical solution but the definition of 'best' is with respect to requirements. A lot of the 'technical' arguments that are made against demands made by Russia, China, etc. are actually technical choices and it undermines our position when people falsely claim that there is no alternative. I am currently at a conference where Fadi Chehadé just talked about Russia asking to host a root server and he led the audience to believe that there could only be 13 servers. So I had to correct him and point out that Russia already has a DNS server due to anycast and what we are actually arguing about is a root service, an abstract construct. There is of course no technical reason that the number of services is limited to 13. We can have as many as there are institutions willing to run them at an acceptable level of reliability. Putin's technical advisor is probably telling Putin that the westerner's claims of technical limitations are bogus and he would be right. The argument against more root servers is political, not technical and the politics are rather more complex than just 'should Russia have one'. At the moment the root is small and the load relatively light. In fact the legitimate load is essentially zero. The root zone could probably be distributed as a flat file, it isn't large, it doesn't change very much. Certainly it is nothing like .com. The only real issue in root server management is dealing with the load from the DoS attacks which are awesome in scale. The main consequence of expanding the root zone is that the root zone operators would constrain future development of the DNS. The root zone is going to grow with the new TLDs. When the number of TLDs reaches a certain point there will be a tipping point and there will be pressure to open up. Having a hundred root operators would greatly constrain those changes, But that might in part be why Russia and China want a seat at that table This is not to say that the single root doesn't have additional > political implications. But I will not concede that this is some > contingent fact of the DNS that could be otherwise. The particular > root we have could be different. That there is a single root could > not. > Uniformity of the name space is the essential criteria. The Web can't work on UUCP bang path addressing. Describing this as having a single root conflates a large number of issues and essentially commits to a particular conclusion. A uniform namespace is a requirement, a single 'root' is not. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/
- Split the IANA functions? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Split the IANA functions? John Curran
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Stephen Farrell
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Split the IANA functions? l.wood
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Split the IANA functions? John Curran
- Re: Split the IANA functions? John Curran
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Eliot Lear
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Dave Crocker
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Eliot Lear
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Patrik Fältström
- Re: Split the IANA functions? avri doria
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Dave Crocker
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Split the IANA functions? David Conrad
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Stephen Kent
- DNS heirarchy, multiple roots, etc [was Re: Split… Thomas Narten
- Re: DNS heirarchy, multiple roots, etc [was Re: S… Patrik Fältström
- Re: DNS heirarchy, multiple roots, etc [was Re: S… John C Klensin
- Re: DNS heirarchy, multiple roots, etc [was Re: S… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNS heirarchy, multiple roots, etc [was Re: S… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: Split the IANA functions? manning bill
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Split the IANA functions? Robert Elz
- DNS design (was: Re: Split the IANA functions?) John C Klensin
- Re: DNS design (was: Re: Split the IANA functions… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNS design Eliot Lear
- Multiple Namespaces Re: Split the IANA functions? Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: DNS design John C Klensin
- Re: Multiple Namespaces Re: Split the IANA functi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Multiple Namespaces Re: Split the IANA functi… David Conrad
- Re: Multiple Namespaces Re: Split the IANA functi… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Multiple Namespaces Re: Split the IANA functi… Dave Crocker
- Re: Multiple Namespaces Re: Split the IANA functi… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNS design George Michaelson