Re: [Insipid] WG Review: INtermediary-safe SIP session ID (insipid)

Hi Dan,

so, in practical terms, what do you want me to do? I (and the chairs
before) have already distributed the milestones before so that the WG
can review them. Do you want me to do something else?

Thanks,

Gonzalo

On 29/09/2013 1:07 PM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
> But we ARE discussing a charter update. So let is also include the new milestones in the discussion. This does not change the process, it just allows to comment the text related to the scope and the milestones on the same occasion. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 1:04 PM
>> To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
>> Cc: DRAGE, Keith (Keith); James Polk; insipid@ietf.org; 'Gonzalo
>> Salgueiro (gsalguei)'
>> Subject: Re: [Insipid] WG Review: INtermediary-safe SIP session ID
>> (insipid)
>>
>> Hi Dan,
>>
>> yes, because the first two are the existing milestones. The last two are
>> added as a result of this charter update.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Gonzalo
>>
>> On 29/09/2013 1:00 PM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
>>> OK, thanks, this makes sense. The announcement included only the first
>> two.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:58 PM
>>>> To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
>>>> Cc: DRAGE, Keith (Keith); James Polk; insipid@ietf.org; 'Gonzalo
>>>> Salgueiro (gsalguei)'
>>>> Subject: Re: [Insipid] WG Review: INtermediary-safe SIP session ID
>>>> (insipid)
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dan,
>>>>
>>>> the proposed milestones can be found on the slides Keith mentioned in
>>>> his email below. I copy them below for your convenience:
>>>>
>>>> Dec 2012 Requirements and use cases for new identifier sent to IESG
>>>> (as
>>>> informational)
>>>>
>>>> Feb 2013 Specification of the new identifier sent to the IESG (PS)
>>>>
>>>> Dec 2013 Requirements for marking SIP sessions for logging to IESG
>>>> (Informational)
>>>>
>>>> Mar 2014 Protocol for marking SIP sessions for logging to IESG
>>>> (Proposed standard
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Gonzalo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 29/09/2013 12:27 PM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
>>>>> Hi Gonzalo,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that the process of review and approval of the
>>>>> milestones
>>>> is different, but at such point in time when the charter is sent for
>>>> external review I think it would be good to synchronize the two
>>>> processed. It does not make sense to me to review a charter whose
>>>> milestones are in the past, obviously not in synch with the rest of
>>>> the text.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: insipid-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:insipid-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Gonzalo Camarillo
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:35 AM
>>>>>> To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
>>>>>> Cc: James Polk; insipid@ietf.org; 'Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Insipid] WG Review: INtermediary-safe SIP session ID
>>>>>> (insipid)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with respect to the milestones, the review of charters follows a
>>>>>> different review process than the milestones, which can be easily
>>>>>> updated by the chairs and the responsible AD without going through
>>>>>> IETF, IESG, and IAB reviews.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, once the charter is approved, the chairs will add the updated
>>>>>> milestones to the tracker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gonzalo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/09/2013 10:12 PM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote:
>>>>>>> The relevant mail was:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/insipid/current/msg00642.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent on 2nd August 2013.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you go to the link in this message you will see a slide with a
>>>>>> coloured version just for your benefit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure why the new milestones are missing - there should
>>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>> be two new ones. May Gonzalo Camarillo can comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keith
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: insipid-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:insipid-bounces@ietf.org]
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of James Polk
>>>>>>>> Sent: 27 September 2013 19:54
>>>>>>>> To: 'Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)'; DRAGE, Keith (Keith); Gonzalo
>>>>>>>> Camarillo
>>>>>>>> Cc: insipid@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Insipid] WG Review: INtermediary-safe SIP session
>>>>>>>> ID
>>>>>>>> (insipid)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chairs and AD
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lacking a good local diff tool, can you articulate what exactly
>>>>>>>> is being proposed to change from the existing charter, and why
>>>>>>>> was this necessary or needed or asked for?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I mean, the focus of the charter is still on the 2 drafts we've
>>>>>>>> been working on for some time now, and that doesn't appear to
>>>>>>>> have changed. Additionally, there are no new milestones.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seemed to have missed the memo that brought this all about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At 11:08 AM 9/27/2013, The IESG wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The INtermediary-safe SIP session ID (insipid) working group in
>>>>>>>>> the Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Area of the IETF
>>>>>>>>> is undergoing rechartering. The IESG has not made any
>>>>>>>>> determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted,
>>>>>>>>> and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send
>>>>>>>>> your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg at
>>>>>>>>> ietf.org) by 2013-10-07.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> INtermediary-safe SIP session ID (insipid)
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Current Status: Active WG
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chairs:
>>>>>>>>>   Gonzalo Salgueiro <gsalguei@cisco.com>
>>>>>>>>>   Keith Drage <keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Assigned Area Director:
>>>>>>>>>   Gonzalo Camarillo <gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mailing list
>>>>>>>>>   Address: insipid@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>   To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/insipid
>>>>>>>>>   Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/insipid/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Charter:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An end-to-end session identifier in SIP-based multimedia
>>>>>>>>> communication networks refers to the ability for endpoints,
>>>>>>>>> intermediate devices, and management and monitoring system to
>>>>>>>>> identify and correlate SIP messages and dialogs of the same
>>>>>>>>> higher-level end-to-end "communication session" across multiple
>>>>>>>>> SIP devices, hops, and administrative domains.  Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>>> there are a number of factors that contribute to the fact that
>>>>>>>>> the current dialog identifiers defined in SIP are not suitable
>>>>>>>>> for end-to-end session identification. Perhaps the most
>>>>>>>>> important factor worth describing is that in real-world
>>>>>>>>> deployments of Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) devices like
>>>>>>>>> Session Border Controllers (SBC) often change the call
>>>>>>>>> identifiers (e.g., the From-tag and To-tag that are used in
>>>>>>>>> conjunction with the Call-ID header to make the dialog-id) as
>>>>>>>>> the session signaling passes
>>>> through.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An end-to-end session identifier should allow the possibility to
>>>>>>>>> identify the communication session from the point of origin,
>>>>>>>>> passing through any number of intermediaries, to the ultimate
>>>>>>>>> point of termination. It should have the same aim as the
>>>>>>>>> From-tag, To-tag and Call-ID conjunction, but should not be
>>>>>>>>> mangled by
>>>> intermediaries.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A SIP end-to-end session identifier has been considered as
>>>>>>>>> possible solution of different use cases like troubleshooting,
>>>>>>>>> billing, session recording, media and signaling correlation, and
>>>> so forth.
>>>>>>>>> Some of these requirements come from other working groups within
>>>>>>>>> the RAI area (e.g., SIPRec).  Moreover, other standards
>>>>>>>>> organizations have identified the need for SIP and H.323 to
>>>>>>>>> carry the same
>>>>>> "session ID"
>>>>>>>>> value so that it is possible to identify a call end-to-end even
>>>>>>>>> when performing inter working between protocols.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Troubleshooting SIP signalling end-to-end becomes impractical as
>>>>>>>>> networks grow and become interconnected, including connection
>>>>>>>>> via transit networks, because the path that SIP signalling will
>>>>>>>>> take between clients cannot be predicted and the signalling
>>>>>>>>> volume and geographical spread are too large.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This group will focus on two documents:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The first document will specify a SIP identifier that has the
>>>>>>>>> same aim as the From-tag, To-tag and Call-ID conjunction, but is
>>>>>>>>> less likely to be mangled by intermediaries.  In doing this
>>>>>>>>> work, the group will pay attention to the privacy implications
>>>>>>>>> of a "session ID", for example considering the possibility to
>>>>>>>>> make it intractable for nodes to correlate "session IDs"
>>>>>>>>> generated by the same user for different sessions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The second document will define an indicator that can be added
>>>>>>>>> to the SIP protocol to indicate that signalling should be
>>>>>>>>> logged. The indicator will typically be applied as part of
>>>>>>>>> network testing controlled by the network operator and not used
>>>>>>>>> in regular client signalling.  However, such marking can be
>>>>>>>>> carried end-to-end including the SIP terminals, even if a
>>>>>>>>> session originates and terminates in different networks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Milestones:
>>>>>>>>>   Dec 2012 - Requirements and use cases for new identifier sent
>>>>>>>>> to IESG (as informational)
>>>>>>>>>   Feb 2013 - Specification of the new identifier sent to the
>>>>>>>>> IESG
>>>>>>>>> (PS)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> insipid mailing list
>>>>>>>>> insipid@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/insipid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> insipid mailing list
>>>>>>>> insipid@ietf.org
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> insipid@ietf.org
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>>>
> 