Re: [Iotops] can we create protocols that securely transfer ownership?

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Fri, 30 October 2020 17:25 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E103A1059 for <iotops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zrsu7TDzKsqy for <iotops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77B923A1056 for <iotops@ietf.org>; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085D7389BB; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 13:31:59 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 1OBkVcf5e6Hg; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 13:31:58 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8897E389BA; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 13:31:58 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50826362; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 13:25:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, iotops@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <CAA=duU3Z5v03AkoWTJvXN2r4co9r8zTSjS5n7t0Q2NeOoTyDnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <160338716989.22551.17761888498316049460@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAA=duU3XAgBsbqf1k=jQ4yh-DdR=TyX+FkTYcm7LKtBzd99fdQ@mail.gmail.com> <13731.1604075416@localhost> <CAA=duU3Z5v03AkoWTJvXN2r4co9r8zTSjS5n7t0Q2NeOoTyDnQ@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 13:25:08 -0400
Message-ID: <28326.1604078708@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iotops/cEahShVUEKSrxpO0SoT84DgBDqY>
Subject: Re: [Iotops] can we create protocols that securely transfer ownership?
X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IOT Operations <iotops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/iotops>, <mailto:iotops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/iotops/>
List-Post: <mailto:iotops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:iotops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iotops>, <mailto:iotops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 17:25:13 -0000

Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
    > Yes, in addition to being a good story, the point is who controls the
    > firmware in our things, and how bad it can get not only when the
    > manufacturer enforces DRM, but the gov't enables the behavior
    > (criminalizing jailbreaking).

    > Or the issues that arise when the manufacturer fails to properly maintain
    > the firmware, or goes out of business.

All major concerns.  What do you think the IETF can/should do?
I have some very specific ideas which I think are manageable and specific.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide