FW: [ipfix-req] does raqmon-pdu compete with ipfix?

["Carter Bullard" <[e-mail]>]

Hey Jeff,
   I'm glad to see that you also recognize RAQMon-PDU
as an IP flow information transport protocol.

   RAQMon is a new component of the RMON Architecture
that introduces a completely new philosophy in
RMON data generation/collection.  It is exactly what
the IPFIX concept envisions and is designed to support;
remote probes generating flow information to enable
various applications.  Obviously, the RMON WG is saying
that when it wants to use IP flow information as a data
source in its new strategy, it doesn't need the minimum features and
functions of IPFIX.  The chairs and Ads are supporting this position,
either out of ignorance or as a hedge.  This is the essence of the
problem.

   I believe that RAQMon-PDU is an IPFIX killer not
because it can meet the requirements of IPFIX, but
rather because RMON, a targeted IPFIX customer doesn't
need the functions and features of the protocol.  If
the IESG accepts that position, then what are IPFIX's
chances?

   I am not aware that the list "routers, probes,
middleboxes" excludes end systems.


Carter



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEYER,JEFFREY D (HP-Cupertino,ex1) [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 7:57 PM
> To: '[e-mail]'; [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [ipfix-req] does raqmon-pdu compete with ipfix?
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   Further examining RAQMon, it looks like an interesting
> approach to address the collection of a certain limited set of flow 
> information from end devices (vs. IPFIX which is more 
> targeted at routers, probes, middleboxes).
> 
>   It is based on an essentially fixed data model containing 28 
> different attributes.  Several of these attributes are particularly 
> focused on QoS aspects of various streaming protocols, other 
> attributes provide system level statistics such as CPU utilization.  
> The attribute set is incomplete compared to that defined in IPFIX 
> requirements.
> 
>   It also only specifies mappings onto non-congestion aware
> protocols today.  Although one could picture mapping it to 
> something like BEEP (RFC 3080).
> 
>   It clearly states that loss of information is a property
> of the current spec (framework sec. 2.4 bullet #6).
> 
> 
>   Although it claims an extension framework, this basically
> consists of specifying a different header, which indicates 
> the subsequent encoding of the payload is "interpreted by the 
> application and not by RRC itself."  (Hmmm not a lot of 
> guidance there).  [see PDU sec. 4.3]
> 
> 
>   Given their design center, which appears to be device
> centric QoS reporting, with a focus on streaming, this UDP based, 
> fixed set of information may address a need different than 
> IPFIX, i.e. a dirt simple UDP packet that an app can blast 
> at a collector, when it has some info to share.
> 
> 
>   However, RAQMon clearly is incomplete in addressing IPFIX.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
>   Jeff Meyer
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carter Bullard [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 5:51 AM
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: [ipfix-req] does raqmon-pdu compete with ipfix?
> > 
> > 
> > Gentle People,
> >    I believe that raqmon-pdu is indeed a direct
> > competitor to IPFIX.  Why not realize that raqmon
> > is a form of flow data and have it use IPFIX?
> > 
> > Carter
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf
> > Of [e-mail]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:08 AM
> > To: IETF-Announce:
> > Cc: [e-mail]
> > Subject: [RMONMIB] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-rmonmib-raqmon-pdu-00.txt
> > 
> > 
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories. This draft is a work item of the Remote Network 
> > Monitoring Working Group of the IETF.
> > 
> > 	Title		: Real-time Application Quality of Service
> > Monitoring 
> >                          (RAQMON) Protocol Data Unit (PDU)
> > 	Author(s)	: A. Siddiqui et al.
> > 	Filename	: draft-ietf-rmonmib-raqmon-pdu-00.txt
> > 	Pages		: 26
> > 	Date		: 2003-1-15
> > 	
> > This memo defines a common protocol data unit (PDU) used between 
> > RAQMON Data Source (RDS) and RAQMON Report Collector (RRC) to report

> > a QOS statistics using RTCP and SNMP as Transport Protocol. The 
> > original RAQMON draft [SIDDIQUI3] was split into 3 parts to identify
> the RAQMON
> > Framework, RAQMON QOS PDU and RAQMON MIB. This memo defined
> RAQMON QOS
> > Protocol Data Unit (PDU). This memo also outlines mechanisms
> > to use Real
> > Time Transport Control Protocol
> > (RTCP) and Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP) to 
> > transport these
> > PDUs between RAQMON Data Source (RDS) and RAQMON Report 
> > Collector (RRC)
> > as outlined in RAQMON Charter of the RMON Workgroup. The memo
> > [SIDDIQUI2] defines a Real-Time Application QOS Monitoring
> > (RAQMON) Framework that extends the RMON Framework to allow 
> Real-time
> > Application QoS information as outlined by RAQMON Charter
> of the RMON
> > Workgroup. The memo [SIDDIQUI1] defines a portion of the Management 
> > Information Base (MIB) for use with network management protocols in 
> > the Internet community. The document proposes an extension to the 
> > Remote Monitoring MIB [RFC2819] to accommodate RAQMON solution.
> > Distribution of
> > this memo is unlimited.
> > 
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rmonmib-raqmon-
> pdu-00.txt
> 
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