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Re: A problem with RFC 6465's Uniform Format for Extension Headers

Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au> Sat, 08 February 2014 00:06 UTC

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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:06:29 -0800
From: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: A problem with RFC 6465's Uniform Format for Extension Headers
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
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Cc: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>, "C. M. Heard" <heard@pobox.com>, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
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----- Original Message -----
> From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
> To: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
> Cc: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>; "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>; C. M. Heard <heard@pobox.com>; Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>; Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, 8 February 2014 12:21 AM
> Subject: Re: A problem with RFC 6465's Uniform Format for Extension Headers
> 
> Hi, Ole,
> 
> On 02/07/2014 06:05 AM, Ole Troan wrote:
>> 
>>>  But to keep hearing that e.g. extensions are expected to work
>>>  when I'm measuring over 40% of breakage, It seems to boil down to
>>>  "you, heretic! don't filter these packets!" on one side 
> and "shut
>>>  up! you don't know how to run a network" on another. *That*
>>>  doesn't seem to be the more sane approach to this issue.
>> 
>>  I think we have to be careful throwing these numbers about without 
>>  qualifying them.
>> 
>>  aren't you in many cases detecting filtering in front of services, 
>>  where the operator has very good control of how their traffic
>>  should look like?
> 
> Probably, I guess -- I'm in the process of finding out where these
> packets are being filtered.
> 
> But widespread filtering of stuff that is supposed to be "ignored if
> unsupported" eventually leads to "It's not usable, because if you 
> try
> to, your packets get dropped".
> 
> If, say, tomorrow you come up with this shiny cool new Dst Opt-based
> extension for clients, then, from starters, you would have to think of
> a back-up plan, because in more than 40% cases your packets would get
> dropped just because of that extension. -- that's where we are right now.
> 

End-to-end crypto might the backup plan. I think it might be worth remembering that as per the IETF88 Plenary, end-to-end encryption is the general direction, and that middle boxes less effective/in-effective because of it. So putting a lot of time and effort into facilitating them might be wasted effort.

I also think multipathing, to take advantage of smartphone/tablet's multi-homing to the network will also mean middle boxes become less effective/in-effective. IOS 7 is already using MPTCP for Siri for example+.

<snip>

Regards,
Mark.


+ - http://perso.uclouvain.be/olivier.bonaventure/blog/html/2013/09/18/mptcp.html

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