Re: Adoption Call for <draft-troan-6man-universal-ra-option>

[Bob Hinden <[e-mail]>]

Brian,

one comment below.

> On Sep 23, 2021, at 3:42 PM, Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> On 23-Sep-21 21:16, Philip Homburg wrote:
>>> Yes, I think that was the world view in ~1994 when this conversation started.
>>> I was thinking of SLAAC, not SLAAC+RA. SLAAC starts with link-local addresses.
>>> Certainly, a modern version of "dentist's office" is more like a homenet with
>>> several in-house routers. RA is what you get out of the box when you install
>>> an IPv6 router. Then you need ULAs unless you have an active ISP.
>> 
>> Maybe we should leave the "dentist's office" in 1994 with the original
>> definition: no router at all.
>> 
>> Then we can have another term for a network with routers, but without a
>> connection to the wider internet.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that scenario was considered by HOMENET, and it's certainly
> one we've considered (at least during network construction) in ANIMA.
> 
>> 
>>> Just to be clear, we defined IPv6 in such a way that it doesn't depend on
>>> having an active ISP or any kind of centralised top-down configuration.
>>> That's something we need to keep; we aren't here to support any
>>> particular business model such as an ISP-based Internet. (The very
>>> concept of "CPE" assumes that business model.)
>> 
>> Recently my home network is a bit unstable. Quite a few devices are
>> complaining that they don't have a network connection when there is no link
>> to the internet.
>> 
>> So client side, we already moved on, a 'network' implies a connection to the
>> internet.
> 
> And that's something we need to fix. I was very disturbed when I acquired
> a new TV that its first demand was that I should create an account with
> $MANUFACTURER before I could continue the setup. This may be current
> reality, but it isn't OK.
> 
>> As far as I can tell, there is barely any market for networks that are
>> not connected to the internet. Of course they exists. It is just that for
>> most people a network without an internet connection is a broken network.
> 
> Of course. But that doesn't (or shouldn't) apply to IoT deployments or
> any situation where an air gap is a basic security environment.
>> 
>> It is good that we have the mechanisms (such as ULA) for disconnected
>> operation. But it's a corner case.
> 
> It is for today's mainstream business model.

I have two shipping products on my home network that use ULAs (for different purposes as far as I can tell), my Eero routers and my Apple TV.   It’s now in widespread usage.

Bob