Re: Adoption Call for <draft-troan-6man-universal-ra-option>

[Mark Smith <[e-mail]>]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 15:25 Bob Hinden, <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Brian,
>
> one comment below.
>
> > On Sep 23, 2021, at 3:42 PM, Brian E Carpenter <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > On 23-Sep-21 21:16, Philip Homburg wrote:
> >>> Yes, I think that was the world view in ~1994 when this conversation
> started.
> >>> I was thinking of SLAAC, not SLAAC+RA. SLAAC starts with link-local
> addresses.
> >>> Certainly, a modern version of "dentist's office" is more like a
> homenet with
> >>> several in-house routers. RA is what you get out of the box when you
> install
> >>> an IPv6 router. Then you need ULAs unless you have an active ISP.
> >>
> >> Maybe we should leave the "dentist's office" in 1994 with the original
> >> definition: no router at all.
> >>
> >> Then we can have another term for a network with routers, but without a
> >> connection to the wider internet.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure that scenario was considered by HOMENET, and it's
> certainly
> > one we've considered (at least during network construction) in ANIMA.
> >
> >>
> >>> Just to be clear, we defined IPv6 in such a way that it doesn't depend
> on
> >>> having an active ISP or any kind of centralised top-down configuration.
> >>> That's something we need to keep; we aren't here to support any
> >>> particular business model such as an ISP-based Internet. (The very
> >>> concept of "CPE" assumes that business model.)
> >>
> >> Recently my home network is a bit unstable. Quite a few devices are
> >> complaining that they don't have a network connection when there is no
> link
> >> to the internet.
> >>
> >> So client side, we already moved on, a 'network' implies a connection
> to the
> >> internet.
> >
> > And that's something we need to fix. I was very disturbed when I acquired
> > a new TV that its first demand was that I should create an account with
> > $MANUFACTURER before I could continue the setup. This may be current
> > reality, but it isn't OK.
> >
> >> As far as I can tell, there is barely any market for networks that are
> >> not connected to the internet. Of course they exists. It is just that
> for
> >> most people a network without an internet connection is a broken
> network.
> >
> > Of course. But that doesn't (or shouldn't) apply to IoT deployments or
> > any situation where an air gap is a basic security environment.
> >>
> >> It is good that we have the mechanisms (such as ULA) for disconnected
> >> operation. But it's a corner case.
> >
> > It is for today's mainstream business model.
>
> I have two shipping products on my home network that use ULAs (for
> different purposes as far as I can tell), my Eero routers and my Apple TV.
>  It’s now in widespread usage.
>

Here in Victoria, Australia, there are 4 electricity smartmeter networks
with a total of about 2.4 million meters attached, all using IPv6 only and
all addressed out of the ULA address space.

The smartmeters don't have access to the Internet. It's ULAs to one side of
the management systems, and IPv4 on the other facing the corporate network.

Far from a corner case. Just not visible outside of that industry.

Regards,
Mark.



> Bob
>
>
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