Re: [irtf-discuss] I-D Action: draft-perkins-irtf-code-of-conduct-00.txt

[Colin Perkins <[e-mail]>]

On 27 Dec 2023, at 18:33, S Moonesamy wrote:
> Hi Toerless, Colin,
> At 12:25 PM 23-10-2023, Toerless Eckert wrote:
>> Thanks, Colin
>>
>> a) I think it would be great if IRTF would practice an open and transparent
>> process and also discuss this document on irtf-discuss, even though i am not sure
>> if this is required for IRTF documents such as this one.
>>
>> b) Given how IETF participants are likely the biggest possible IRTF participants,
>> even if not necessarily as contributors but hopefully as more than welcome
>> commenters, it would be probably helpfull to not only write:
>>
>> " Compared to the IETF equivalent [RFC7154], this IRTF code of conduct
>>   reflects those differences in emphasis between the two organisations. "
>>
>> But maybe elaborate on those core differences as a quick "executive summary"
>> for IETF contributors. Even though it might constitute some degree of duplication
>> over the prior text.
>>
>> c) I am not sure about the exact administrative and organizational relationship
>> between IETF and IRTF, but i hope that wrt. code of conduct it should make sense
>> to think of a common code of conduct across both of them and then specific
>> code of conduct aspects that apply only to standards (group) work and/or only to
>> research (group) work. But it seems we do not have such a common code of conduct.
>>
>> In it's absence i wonder if the IRTF code of conduct should not consider
>> to explicitly inherit the IETF code of conduct and explicitly describe differences.
>> I understand that that would be more work, but it would have the benefit of
>> then also automatically inheriting any changes in IETF code of conduct that
>> is also applicable to IRTF to the IRTF.
>>
>> Right now it seems like its more the opposite: The text about honesty specifically
>> towards AI-tools is of course equally applicable to IETF, and hence investing
>> the work of thinking what a modernized common ietf+irtf code-of-conduct should
>> include might be better spent than trying to first write (only) an IRTF-only
>> code of conduct.
>
> I quoted all the comments from Toreless as it may be useful for people reading the thread.  He raised a good question; would be possible to find some commonality across streams?

You did not quote my response to Toerless, where I said that IETF code of conduct is mainly focussed on effective conduct of the standards process. The overwhelming majority of its text is therefore not applicable to the IRTF. Accordingly, I don't believe it makes sense to base the IRTF code of conduct on it.

> The heading of Section 2 of the draft is "conduct".  The text in that section is about harassment.

Harassment is a form of conduct we wish to prevent.

> Some of the text in Section 3 is along the lines of what is in RFC 7154.  There isn't any mention of imagery in RFC 7154.

Points 1 and 2 from Section 2 of RFC 7154 have been expanded and updated for inclusion in the IRTF code of conduct. Points 3 and 4 are IETF-specific.

> Sections 4 and 5 are more specific to the IRTF.

As is about half of Section 2 (both the reporting chain if cases of harassment occur and the way mailing lists are moderated differ between IETF and IRTF).

> I sometimes see a disclosure/declaration of interests in an academic paper.  I could not find that in the draft.

The IRTF does not require such a disclosure and it would be a significant change in practice.

Colin