Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-11
"Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> Wed, 22 January 2020 14:09 UTC
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From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 23:08:23 +0900
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To: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>
Cc: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com>, its <its@ietf.org>, skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>, 김증일 글로벌R&D마스터 <endland@hyundai.com>, 김정현 학생 <claw7@naver.com>
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Subject: Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-11
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Hi Carlos, Did you have a change to check my revision? We need to go forward. Thanks. Best Regards, Paul On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 2:48 AM Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong < jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Carlos and Russ, > Here is the revision -13 of our IPWAVE PS draft according to Carlos' > comments: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-13 > > I attach the revision letter to show how I addressed comments in the > revision. > > If you are satisfied with my revision, please let me know. > > I will ask five reviewers to review this version for WGLC. > > Thanks. > > Best Regards, > Paul > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 2:06 PM CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO < > cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> >> I’ve reviewed the draft. I think the draft is in better shape than last >> time I checked, but it is not yet ready. I’m afraid I have quite some >> comments. Please see below: >> >> - I think the title (and the text in many parts of the document) should >> be changed to refer to IPv6, instead of IP, as the document (and the WG) is >> IPv6 specific. Another example: we should not mention Mobile IPv4 in the >> document (as done currently in page 2). >> >> - Page 4 (but also later in different parts of the doc): Mobility Anchor >> (MA): is this term coined somewhere you can reference? It is mentioned as a >> component of a vehicular architecture, but it is not discussed why, not >> even why an IPv6 mobility solution is needed in a vehicular scenario. It >> might seem like straightforward, but you need to present that need. >> >> - Page 4: the terms OBU and RSU should be aligned with what the basic OCB >> draft uses (IP-OBU and IP-RSU) and probably refer to that document. Besides >> I understand OBU and RSUs as single IP devices, not set of nodes as the >> document currently defines. >> >> - Page 5: V2I2P and V2I2V deserve additional explanation. >> >> - The use cases should serve not only to present areas where vehicular >> networks can be used, but also to support requirements for IPv6 in such >> environments. Current text does not help much on identifying requirements. >> >> - Section 4 should introduce a generic vision of what vehicular networks >> architectures might look like, again to help the purpose of identifying >> requirements. I’m afraid current section is making quite a lot of >> assumptions about how the architecture looks like without properly >> justifying them. Examples are: the presence of a Mobility Anchor, using >> Ethernet links to interconnect RSUs or the subnet/prefix model. I think the >> proposed architecture might make sense, but it is not THE architecture (if >> it was, we should be referring to the doc where it is specified), but an >> example of potential architecture. It’d be right to present an exemplary >> architecture to support the use cases and problem statement, but the >> document should clearly state that. >> >> - Related to the former, the document assumes that IPv6 mobility is a key >> requirement. While I don’t disagree with that, the document should support >> that assumption backed up by requirements from use cases. >> >> - Figure 2: the vision of the RSU having multiple routers, hosts, etc, >> inside... where does it come from? It’s new to me. Similarly, on the >> vehicle I’d expect Router1 to be an IP-OBU. Related to this comment, first >> paragraph of Section 4.2 talks about the RSU architecture without providing >> any reference. Why is it needed to have a DNS server internally? I don’t >> see why this is needed or specific to vehicular networks. >> >> - Page 12: all the discussion about the need for exchanging prefix >> information comes out of the blue, there is no proper discussion why this >> is a requirement. And then the document gets into mentioning an example of >> solution for this, which is something that should be avoided (this document >> is not about solution space), unless we were analyzing different approaches >> to solve a given problem. >> >> - Page 12: as mentioned above, I don’t see why we need the DNS discussion. >> >> - Figure 2 makes assumptions on network topology and subnetting that is >> not explained. >> >> - Page 14: the discussion on prevention of false reports of accidents is >> application-layer specific, not IPv6 specific, and therefore it is not in >> the scope of this document. >> >> - Section 5.1 is a critical one (actually the whole section 5) and I >> think it needs significant work. I’d discuss link model issues before going >> into neighbor discovery protocol specific issues. Current text seem to have >> already a solution in mind when describing the issues, while what it should >> do is derive requirements, and explain why current solutions are not >> sufficient. For example, it should not start saying that DAD and ND-related >> parameters need to be extended before introducing why current DAD and ND is >> not sufficient. >> >> - All the discussion on ND timers is again very much solution specific >> and should be avoided. And the discussion about NHTSA and the collision is >> also not appropriate, as one thing is the delay at application layer and a >> different thing is the timers used for ND. >> >> - Page 16 and page 17: the text assumes a prefix model for a vehicular >> network that is not properly introduced and justified. Issues cannot be >> derived from the use of a prefix model that is not well introduced. >> >> - Page 18: the discussion about notifying changes on the IP address >> should be removed if it is assumed that there is an IPv6 mobility protocol >> in place (which seems to be the case) as this is taken care by it. >> >> - Section 5.1.3: again it goes too much into solution space without >> presenting the scenario and the issues. This document is not about talking >> solutions. >> >> - Section 5.2: same comment as before. Solution space specifics should be >> removed. >> >> - Section 6 needs significant work as well. First, I’d like to have some >> kind of structure in terms of presenting the security and privacy issues >> that are specific to the vehicular environment. And then, we need to have a >> list of issues/requirements instead of again going too much into solution >> space. >> >> We can sit together in Singapore to discuss about how to address these >> comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Carlos >> >> On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 08:30, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong < >> jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Carlos, >>> Great! >>> >>> Sure you soon in Singapore. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:08 AM CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO < >>> cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Paul, >>>> >>>> I have to do my review first. You'll have it by the Singapore meeting >>>> so we can discuss there. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Carlos >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 3:29 AM Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong < >>>> jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Carlos, >>>>> I am wondering what next steps our IPWAVE PS draft will take. >>>>> If you are satisfied with my revision, could you do the WG Last Call >>>>> on this version? >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-12 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 1:19 AM CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO < >>>>> cjbc@it.uc3m.es> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the revision. I'll review the document and let you know >>>>>> about next steps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Carlos >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 12:12 PM Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong < >>>>>> jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Russ and Carlos, >>>>>>> I have submitted the revision (-12) of IPWAVE PS draft as you know. >>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-12 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Will you review the revision and move forward to the WGLC or wait >>>>>>> for Charlie's another review? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BTW, my SKKU team are working for IETF-106 IPWAVE Hackathon Project >>>>>>> to show the data delivery >>>>>>> between two 802.11-OCB embedded systems such as the text and >>>>>>> web-camera video. >>>>>>> We will work to demonstrate the IPv6 over 802.11-OCB. >>>>>>> This is a collaboration work with Hyundai Motors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>> From: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:57 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for >>>>>>> draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-11 >>>>>>> To: Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net> >>>>>>> Cc: its@ietf.org <its@ietf.org>, Sandra Cespedes < >>>>>>> scespedes@ing.uchile.cl>, <skku-iotlab-members@skku.edu>, Mr. >>>>>>> Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Charlie, >>>>>>> I have addressed your comments below and your editorial changes, >>>>>>> submitting the revision: >>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-12 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, I addressed Sandra's comments about the definition of an RSU >>>>>>> as an edge computing system >>>>>>> having multiple routers and servers (including DNS server), as shown >>>>>>> in Figure 2. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I attach the revision letter for your double-checking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your valuable and constructive comments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 1:08 PM Charlie Perkins < >>>>>>> charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello folks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I made a review of the document >>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-11.txt. Besides editorial >>>>>>>> comments, I had some other more substantive comments on the >>>>>>>> document, as >>>>>>>> follows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First, I thought that the document should contain an easily >>>>>>>> identifiable >>>>>>>> problem statement. Here is some text that I devised for that >>>>>>>> purpose, >>>>>>>> which could fit naturally at the beginning of Section 5. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In order to specify protocols using the abovementioned >>>>>>>> architecture >>>>>>>> for VANETs, IPv6 core protocols have to be adapted to overcome >>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>> challenging aspects of vehicular networking. Since the >>>>>>>> vehicles are >>>>>>>> likely to be moving at great speed, protocol exchanges need to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> completed in a time relatively small compared to the lifetime >>>>>>>> of a >>>>>>>> link between a vehicle and an RSU, or between two vehicles. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> has a major impact on IPv6 neighbor discovery. Mobility >>>>>>>> management >>>>>>>> is also vulnerable to disconnections that occur before the >>>>>>>> completion >>>>>>>> of identify verification and tunnel management. This is >>>>>>>> especially >>>>>>>> true given the unreliable nature of wireless communications. >>>>>>>> Finally, >>>>>>>> and perhaps most importantly, proper authorization for >>>>>>>> vehicular >>>>>>>> protocol >>>>>>>> messages must be assured in order to prevent false reports of >>>>>>>> accidents >>>>>>>> or other mishaps on the road, which would cause horrific misery >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> modern urban environments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Although geographic routing is mentioned early in the document, it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> not discussed in later sections. This makes me wonder whether the >>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>> mention is really relevant. In fact, for fast moving objects, I >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> it is already questionable whether geographic routing has value. >>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>> the RSUs, it is a lot easier to imagine a good use for geographic >>>>>>>> routing, or perhaps some other use of geographic information to >>>>>>>> establish links between application endpoints. If geographic >>>>>>>> algorithms >>>>>>>> are mentioned at all, a lot more development is needed to establish >>>>>>>> relevance to the problem statement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More description is needed for OCB in the Terminology section. It >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> also be a good idea to include definitions for "context-aware" and >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> platooning. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> class-based safety plan needs a definition and a list of classes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a general comment, it seems to me that a proposed architecture >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> usually considered to be part of the solution, not the problem >>>>>>>> statement. In the case of this document, the architecture is >>>>>>>> really a >>>>>>>> depiction of IPv6 as it might be normally considered to live in a >>>>>>>> multi-network deployment (e.g., between a lot of cars and RSUs). >>>>>>>> But >>>>>>>> anyway some care has to be taken so that the proposed architecture >>>>>>>> doesn't otherwise place strong limits on acceptable solutions. So, >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> example, in section 4.1, it needs to be clear whether or not a >>>>>>>> single >>>>>>>> subnet prefix can span multiple vehicles. This is an important >>>>>>>> choice. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In section 5.1.1., a claim is made that a new link model is >>>>>>>> required. I >>>>>>>> think this is a very ambitious claim, and I am not even quite sure >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> is meant. IPv6 already provides for "on-link" and "off-link" >>>>>>>> variations >>>>>>>> on subnet operation. Unless I am missing something here, the claim >>>>>>>> should be made much more clear (or else retracted). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Similarly, the suggestion that VANETs need to be merging and >>>>>>>> partitioning as part of the problem statement seems at least >>>>>>>> ambitious >>>>>>>> and might present a very high bar that could disqualify otherwise >>>>>>>> suitable solutions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It would be nice to have a citation about why current >>>>>>>> implementations of >>>>>>>> address pseudonyms are insufficient for the purposes described in >>>>>>>> section 5.1.2. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems to me that the discussion in section 5.1.3 lives almost >>>>>>>> entirely in solution space. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In section 5.1.4, it was not clear to me about why Neighbor >>>>>>>> Discovery >>>>>>>> really needs to be extended into being a routing protocol. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems to me that section 5.3 really belongs in section 6. Also, >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> a perfectly authorized and legitimate vehicle might be persuaded >>>>>>>> somehow >>>>>>>> to run malicious applications. I think that this point is not >>>>>>>> sufficiently covered in the current text. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Charlie P. >>>>>>>> Blue Sky Networks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> its mailing list >>>>>>>> its@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> =========================== >>>>>>> Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. >>>>>>> Associate Professor >>>>>>> Department of Software >>>>>>> Sungkyunkwan University >>>>>>> Office: +82-31-299-4957 >>>>>>> Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu >>>>>>> Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php >>>>>>> <http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> =========================== >>>>>>> Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. >>>>>>> Associate Professor >>>>>>> Department of Software >>>>>>> Sungkyunkwan University >>>>>>> Office: +82-31-299-4957 >>>>>>> Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu >>>>>>> Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php >>>>>>> <http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Special Issue "Beyond 5G Evolution": >>>>>> https://www.mdpi.com/journal/electronics/special_issues/beyond_5g >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> =========================== >>>>> Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. >>>>> Associate Professor >>>>> Department of Software >>>>> Sungkyunkwan University >>>>> Office: +82-31-299-4957 >>>>> Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu >>>>> Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php >>>>> <http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Special Issue "Beyond 5G Evolution": >>>> https://www.mdpi.com/journal/electronics/special_issues/beyond_5g >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> =========================== >>> Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. >>> Associate Professor >>> Department of Software >>> Sungkyunkwan University >>> Office: +82-31-299-4957 >>> Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu >>> Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php >>> <http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php> >>> >> -- >> Sent from a mobile device, please excuse any brevity or typing errors. >> > > -- =========================== Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Software Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php <http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>
- [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-ipwa… Charlie Perkins
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [ipwave] Some review comments for draft-ietf-… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong