Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field
Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Thu, 30 May 2013 14:34 UTC
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References: <02b701ce5cb8$46ae77e0$d40b67a0$@augustcellars.com> <CAD9ie-vK3gY9b9GQrbUa=TACy5KVA1uPH_u_utucoKzVynjuiA@mail.gmail.com> <02f501ce5cc5$ec9a2200$c5ce6600$@augustcellars.com> <CAD9ie-uV-THE0+oL-dNUB0qXF7sx8jHMZDCz8vGESmUHWV=LMg@mail.gmail.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B1680429673943677C58C4@TK5EX14MBXC285.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <CAD9ie-sm7q6gdzC-aTKt=+b=A8wB68ExTP1FwiT=zQTN7b69zA@mail.gmail.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B1680429673943677C5C0A@TK5EX14MBXC285.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <CAL02cgR=Lh5_HogPtgoFM+qhwNkqOFaW0+TzOCAziUwK8ZqQaw@mail.gmail.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B1680429673943677C7399@TK5EX14MBXC285.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:34:22 -0400
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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
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Cc: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>, "jose@ietf.org" <jose@ietf.org>, Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field
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You're mixing up "typ" and "cty". If you want to make the analogy to S/MIME, "cty" is the equivalent to Content-Type inside the protected MIME body; "typ" is the content-type on the outer MIME header. Pasting in an example: -----BEGIN----- Content-Type: application/pkcs7-mime; smime-type=signed-data; name=smime.p7m Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7m 567GhIGfHfYT6ghyHhHUujpfyF4f8HHGTrfvhJhjH776tbB9HG4VQbnj7 77n8HHGT9HG4VQpfyF467GhIGfHfYT6rfvbnj756tbBghyHhHUujhJhjH HUujhJh4VQpfyF467GhIGfHfYGTrfvbnjT6jH7756tbB9H7n8HHGghyHh 6YT64V0GhIGfHfQbnj75 -----END----- <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3851#section-3.4.2> The outer Content-Type, which is analogous to "typ", MUST be application/pkcs7-mime, with a parameter indicating the type of CMS object. This is the same as requiring "typ" to be JWE or JWS. The inner Content-Type (ASN.1/base64 encoded in the example) can be anything, just like "cty". --Richard On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:53 AM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>wrote: > Requiring that the “typ” value be only “JWS” or “JWE” would be analogous > to the MIME spec requiring that the Content-Type: field be only > “text/plain” or “message/external-body”. It would render it useless.**** > > ** ** > > -- Mike**** > > ** ** > > *From:* jose-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:jose-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *Richard Barnes > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:03 PM > *To:* Mike Jones > *Cc:* Jim Schaad; jose@ietf.org; Dick Hardt > > *Subject:* Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field**** > > ** ** > > If this is the level of "type" you're referring to, I think we should drop > it from the spec. It's an application-layer thing that the app can add or > not according to its wishes.**** > > ** ** > > I'm with Dick on this. I think we should either have a mandatory > indicator of what type of JOSE object this, or nothing at all. If the > former, the allowable values are "JWE" and "JWS". The "+JSON" options are > non-sensical -- the app needs to know what it's parsing before it gets this > header. While I have a preference for the former (for clarity), the latter > approach is also OK with me, since the MIME types are specific to JWE/JWS. > **** > > ** ** > > Another approach here would be to address the JSON and compact forms > separately. The JSON form has no need of "typ" at all, since the type of > the object is completely clear from what fields are there, e.g., > "recipients" vs. "signatures". For the compact form, we could do something > like James's "E."/"S." prefix idea, which you need because the > dot-separated components have different meanings and no field names to > indicate this.**** > > ** ** > > --Richard**** > > ** ** > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> > wrote:**** > > A standard library is unlikely to know the meanings of all possible “typ” > values – and more to the point, *it doesn’t have to*. It’s the > application’s job to determine that “this blob is a JOSE object” and then > pass it to a standard library, which will then ignore the “typ” value.**** > > **** > > A standard JOSE library won’t know what “typ”: “JWT” means. It won’t know > what “typ”: “BCGovToken” is, should the BC Government want to declare that > it’s using a token with particular characteristics. It won’t know what > “typ”: “XMPP” is, should XMPP want to declare that it’s using a JOSE data > structure with particular characteristics. Etc.**** > > **** > > All these values can be registered in the registry and used by > applications that understand them. That’s the application’s job – not the > library’s job. The “typ” field is just there so that applications have a > standard place to make any such declarations that they may need.**** > > **** > > -- Mike*** > * > > **** > > *From:* Dick Hardt [mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:18 PM > *To:* Mike Jones > *Cc:* Jim Schaad; jose@ietf.org**** > > > *Subject:* Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field**** > > **** > > I'd prefer to be able to use standard libraries for creating and parsing > tokens, and not specialized libraries dependent on the use case.**** > > **** > > I strongly think we either drop "typ" or make it required.**** > > **** > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> > wrote:**** > > It’s fine for your application to specify that it’s required for your use > case. Not applications need it, so they shouldn’t be forced to pay the > space penalty of an unnecessary field.**** > > **** > > -- Mike*** > * > > **** > > *From:* jose-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:jose-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *Dick Hardt > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:56 PM**** > > > *To:* Jim Schaad > *Cc:* jose@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field**** > > **** > > I use it all the time and my code would barf if it was not there.**** > > **** > > I think it should be required rather than be a hint if it is going ot be > there.**** > > **** > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com> > wrote:**** > > I think the values just changed**** > > **** > > However the way you are using it would be an argument to say that it > should be a required field. Are you just using it as a hint if it exists > and then looking at the rest of the fields if it is not present?**** > > **** > > Jim**** > > **** > > **** > > *From:* Dick Hardt [mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:49 PM > *To:* Jim Schaad > *Cc:* jose@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field**** > > **** > > Well, I have been using, but now realize the spec changed or I was > confused.**** > > **** > > I had been setting "typ" to be either "JWE" or "JWS" depending on the type > of token I was creating or parsing as it was easier than looking at "alg"* > *** > > **** > > As currently defined, I don't see value in "typ".**** > > **** > > -- Dick**** > > **** > > **** > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com> > wrote:**** > > In reading the documents, I am trying to understand the justification for > having the “typ” header parameter in the JOSE documents.**** > > **** > > The purpose of the field is to hold the type of the object. In the past, > I believe that values which should now be placed in the cty field (such as > “JWT”) were placed in this field as well. However the parameter is > optional and an implementation cannot rely on its being present. This > means that for all practical purposes all of the code to determine the > value of the type field from the values of the alg and enc fields. If the > field was mandatory then this code would disappear at a fairly small space > cost and I can understand why the parameter would be present.**** > > **** > > Can anybody justify why this field should be present in the document – or > should it just disappear?**** > > **** > > Jim**** > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > jose mailing list > jose@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose**** > > > > **** > > **** > > -- > -- Dick **** > > > > **** > > **** > > -- > -- Dick **** > > > _______________________________________________ > jose mailing list > jose@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose**** > > > > **** > > **** > > -- > -- Dick **** > > > _______________________________________________ > jose mailing list > jose@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose**** > > ** ** >
- [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Dick Hardt
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Dick Hardt
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Dick Hardt
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field John Bradley
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Dick Hardt
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field John Bradley
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field John Bradley
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Dick Hardt
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field John Bradley
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field John Bradley
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Manger, James H
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header field Manger, James H
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Manger, James H
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richer, Justin P.
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Nat Sakimura
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field John Bradley
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Dick Hardt
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Anthony Nadalin
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Nat Sakimura
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Brian Campbell
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Nat Sakimura
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Nat Sakimura
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Dick Hardt
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Nat Sakimura
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Manger, James H
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Axel.Nennker
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we delete the "typ" header field Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Manger, James H
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] FW: Should we delete the "typ" header … Manger, James H